09 Apr 2014 22:45:48
Hi lads, my reply never came up so I'll try a new thread.

Hi franky mate, I've yet to see or hear about a psychic that's not influenced by the financial benefits of such "abilities"
Like the million dollar cheque situation. Why hasn't a psychic came forward, took the blind tests to prove their ability, and then donated the cheque to a charity? I think the answer to that question is simply that anyone who claims to have such abilities, knows that they will never pass the blind test as there are no psychic powers to actually show/prove.


Hi Ryan, I've actually heard this has happened to a few folk. You have to remember that people that practice cold reading, become masters of their craft mate. With your situation, this woman who approached you, could simply have been someone who had started practicing the art of cold reading (it really is a very complex linguistic practice) and merely used you as someone to practice out on? All she really had to do was approach you with a name, and the name she says doesn't need to be the name of someone who has passed away, so whatever name they say, they pretty much can't be wrong, as they'll only mostly use very common names, depending on generation of customer. And for example, chances are, everyone knows someone, somewhere, called john. And once you've put meaning to the name they've approached you with, your pretty much putty in their hands, as you'll be giving them everything they need to confuse you into thinking they are telling you something that they couldn't know.

It would be great if there were people who could actually do the things these con artists claim to do, it would open up a whole knew understanding. But it won't, as it's simply just an illusion of sorts. Like I've said, it's those that prey on the vulnerable that really gets to me!

Peace

Jay
Glasgow

{Ed001's Note - have you ever thought that it is possible that any possible psychic powers might not be fully controllable? That would make it impossible to take any kind of test with any certainty of coming through. Anyway, why would you want it proven by someone who has a vested interest in it not being proven? They will be sure to put all kinds of impossible obstacles in the way to ensure the money is never paid.}

 
Jay, how did you know his name was John?
And who told you about the putty? I never told anyone about that. Not even her.

C u next tuesday.

Ryan.

 
If that's a joke mate, it's either really bad, or too clever for me!
If it's not, please do elaborate? Did something I say get to you? If so I apologise and would like the opportunity to discuss further with you!

Peace

Jay
Glasgow

Ps! Tried replying twice now, not getting on, have to assume it's a problem with either my phone or wifi

{Ed007's Note - There is a post waiting for Ed001 from you Jay if that is what you think has went missing. He will answer it asap mate.}

 
I've yet to see or hear about a psychic that's not influenced by the financial benefits of such "abilities"?

mate how many psychics do you know?i am not trying to be funny but to assume everyone is a fraud is a sweeping statement, I can not back it up that 1% are genuine, I am just going off my mothers claims and I do appreciate that she could have been played but at the same time because no one has took up the 1 million challenge does not mean a person has not these gifts.

 
Cheers ed, there may be a few doublers lol.

Peace

Jay
Glasgow

{Ed007's Note - No worries Jay, he can sort it out. It's about time he started to pull his weight about here.}

 
Oh aye, and very very clever, the c u next Tuesday part, you come up with that big belter by yourself. Haven't heard that one before! You should patent that puppy before anyone else steals it.
Take it you're just realising that the woman you spoke to was actually playing you like a fool? Not my fault pal!

Peace

Jay
Glasgow

Ps. Tried replying quite a few times tonight but to no avail. Hope the problem is fixed soon

 
Haha, thanks again ed mate!

Franky mate, I really hope you didn't take that personally, I'm speaking about the whole community. And yes, I suppose I am guilty of making a sweeping statement mate, but what I've said about it really is how I personally feel about it.
I'd hate to think you'd taken offence to anything I've said big chap

Peace

Jay
Glasgow

{Ed007's Note - I tend to agree with you Jay. I have argued with my mammy over this for years, she has wasted plenty of money trying to contact her brother (he killed himself about 22 years ago) and now it's my dad who died 3 years ago. The thing is if my dad could talk to her he would be telling her to stop wasting his money on robbing charlatans!
It's got to the point she doesn't even mention it if she is going to some spiritualist church or tacky stage show in Glasgow.
I've just reread that and it makes my mam sound like a pure fruitloop, it's not like she is chasing them about Scotland, just if her and her pals hear of a show etc they will all go if they can make it.}

 
See ed. It's that type of person I really do feel for. It's kind of happening with my mum just now too, not so much her, as folk saying things to her. I feel like it actually slows down the process of dealing with the loss of a loved one. And in no way am I saying it ever gets easier to live with, but all that stuff really just gives them false hope and a lighter purse.


Peace

Jay
Glasgow

{Ed007's Note - My mam's not poor Jay and can afford it, but that's not the point. There are a lot of vulnerable people who can be taken in by these people and used no better than an ATM. Hopefully your mum is OK and maybe will realise that shows like that are just shows and shouldn't be taken too seriously.}

 
Nah jay I never took it personally m8.
if that's how you feel then that's how you feel, I am just giving you my take on it.

 
Hi ed, I was getting at these con artists making money from people like our mums that's all.
Thanks for your replies to!

Cool franky mate, can't agree on everything eh? Lol

Peace

Jay
Glasgow

{Ed007's Note - I know what you meant bud.}

 
Surely there is no obstacle for a person with real psychic ability? They should be able prove beyond doubt everything they say they can, shouldn't they?
What obstacles do you mean ed?

And sorry ed, no. I don't for a second think that these abilities could actually just manifest themselves upon someone at any given time. That's another thing, always some kinda discrepancy hide flaws on the whole idea.

Peace

Jay
Glasgow

{Ed001's Note - except that it isn't like a tap, you might not just be able to turn things off and on at will. It might be a case of it manifesting at its own times. You are making definite claims about something that you have absolutely no knowledge of. No one has any real knowledge of it. How can we, unless you are saying that you know exactly what the human body is capable of? We don't even know what psychic ability actually is, we just have these perceptions coloured by hearing about clairvoyants and the like. How do we know that things like the placebo effect are not the body's natural psychic ability healing itself in response to our belief it is getting better? How do we know that a sportsman playing out of his skin, due to increased confidence, is not a mild psychic ability improving his response times etc? Until you know what is down to psychic ability, truly know, not just guess, then you can't say whether it is manifesting right in front of your eyes.

As for obstacles, you can make anybody appear a fraud very easily, whether they are or not. Just like watching films, your eyes see what the camera wants you to see, not the reality. So any decent film crew could easily make it look faked. Or they could simply continously subject the person to more and more tests until eventually, as would have to happen, they fail one.

By the way, I would think the fear of being known as a real psychic would be enough to keep them from wanting to get involved. Imagine the press attention they would get? Secondly, remember what happened back when witches were being burnt at the stake. They would be accused of causing everything bad that ever happened, or at best hated for not stopping it happening. Would you really want to be blamed for every ill of this world?}

 
Hi ed, thanks for your reply. I know enough about the whole scene to know it's nothing more than word play, and that's it. Anyone can see the flaws with it all, and you don't have to be educated to see that it's a load of nonsense. That's just how I feel mate!

I don't think anyone would be hiding the fact they had these powers, they tell us everyday on the telly that they have these abilities. And no, they wouldn't be blamed for everything, that would be very unfair if they did.

The test thing, I'm sorry ed, have to disagree again, if you had these abilities, you'd be able to prove it to the world without a shadow of doubt!

Peace

Jay
Glasgow

{Ed001's Note - I agree on the most part, most of them are just cold reading people and are nothing more than a scam. But you are so wrong if you think anyone that really had powers wouldn't hide it. Every person is different, so why would everyone act the same and go courting publicity? You fail to take into account that no one even knows how these powers could work, perhaps they only coalesce under certain conditions? You are quite simply being close minded and not opening yourself up to any possibility other than the one you have decided is correct, just like with the tests. You are stating an opinion as a fact, when it is merely an opinion.}

 
Hi Ed. Thanks for the reply again! I have to disagree that I'm not open minded enough. Like most, I'll give anything the time of day if there's evidence to back up at least some of it up. I believe there are others somewhere out there, in the vastness of the mystery that is the universe, I hold hope that before I die, that this will confirmed. That's probably as about open minded as I may be though, but I'm always willing and ready to change my views, based on evidence!
I'll agree 100% that non of us know about these so called powers, reason being that are are non to be known of. Don't get me wrong ed, if it's ever actually proven, I'll be the first one on here holding my hands up and admitting my thoughts were inaccurate.

Peace

Jay
Glasgow

{Ed001's Note - so you don't believe in things like remote viewing?}

 
Not sure what to make of remote viewing, personally I doubt it, but would definitely be willing to change my viewpoint based on solid evidence, again like a blind test. I hope it actually is real though, be quite interesting to see where it could lead.

Peace

Jay
Glasgow

 
Jay I understand we will not agree on everything like mediums but the bug bare is when you say "if its proven "
proven by who?we live in a world of lies and deceit, I think most of us on this site think we can create free energy but if there was a million pound challenge to anyone to create it, what do you think would happen?people debunking it?calling the creator a fraud?all I am saying mate is because 99% of mediums take advantage of people like your mum and maybe my mum it does not mean everyone is at it, if that's the case the Buddhist monks must be part of the charade.

 
My wife persuaded me a few years ago to go and see "Psychic Sally" at the Lyceum in Crewe. I watched a few of her TV shows first to see how she operated, so I was prepared for what she was like. But even I couldn't believe how bad she was and yet how easily people seemed to be sucked in.

{Ed001's Note - the problem is most people want to believe or are completely sceptical. There is little middle ground. So people are either easy marks, or they are scathing over those that do believe.}

 
Hey Glasgow,
I think Ed001's comment on remote viewing is a valid point and one that requires further investigation before dismissal. As confirmed by those who teach rv the next step in the development of that ability is obe (out of body experience) or light body travel. They take time to develop, much like rebuilding an atrophied muscle, but one has but to practice and observe the results.

Solid proof is hard to come by. The reason is the primitive machines scientists use to analyze such high frequency phenomena. No photospectrometry, no scalar wave technology, no understanding of the macrocosm - microcosm resolution (see controlled environment). It's always the same EEG, card guessing and picture guessing routine. High frequencies are by definition not solid.

If one requires to access a higher aspect of their consciousness to achieve esp (extra-sensory perception) then wouldn't using such abilities for monetary gain be in contrast with that higher consciousness? Wouldn't shifting one's focus from higher frequencies (spirit) to lower frequencies (matter) in effect lower the energy concentration required for esp?

The fact that the Nazi, USSR and US governments invested monetary resources and effort into analyzing such phenomena, without ever publishing their results, is proof enough that they are real.

By the way how would you react if someone came up to you and told you they could see everything you do at all times, feel everything you feel while doing it and hear what you think? What if they proved it to you? How would you feel then?
zari

 
When I say proven franky, I mean it in every sense of the way. Blind testing would be the best way. Because, if this ability is to be believed, then they should be able to answer any question by anyone, without even speaking to an individual at all. Like, if there are 5 people, get the psychic to tell you who each one is by name, location, career, family etc. And loads more stuff like that. At no point should the psychic be able to talk to any of the testees, simply look at them and know everything. Because that's what they claim they can do, mind read, receive messages, see images, know who has passed away etc. So let's call them out on it. And only have respectable examiners, like Dawkins, derren brown, james randi etc. Also have some reputable psychics on there too if there are any. That's one way you could do it. Although I do see the implications of who the 5 people would be.
Something along those lines franky would help me change my view on psychics franky mate. It's just the way I am I suppose!

Peace

Jay
Glasgow

{Ed001's Note - Dawkins respectable? James Randi? Derren Brown? They are showmen. What you refer to is just one area, what about all the other areas of potential psychic powers? How can you test them? I also fail to see how this test you have proposed would prove anything either way. It makes no sense to me. It would only make sense in one area of possible psychic ability, telepathy. Even then, it suggests that you believe a psychic should have power over other individuals to ascertain this knowledge without their consent. How do we know that a human mind which wants to block those powers is not capable of doing so naturally? Again we simply do not know until we know how to prove that one way or the other as well.}

 
Those 3 I mentioned are more respectable than any psychic you can speak of ed, you know that's true!
Dawkins is the least showmen of the 3, a respected biologist and a damn clever man.

I know what I said isn't the greatest way of testing, I'll leave that to people with a lot more knowledge and understanding than myself. Was merely a suggestion as to a kind of way I'd like seeing it tested.
Look ed, if a psychic says, I can speak to spirits, then I should be able to ask whatever question I like and get a valid answer without any clever word play.
If they say, it's images I see, then I should be able to ask what those images are and what they have to do with me, not them asking me if these images "mean anything to me".
If the say they can mind read, I should be able to communicate through thought shouldn't i? Asking questions etc.
What I'm saying is, if a psychic says I can do a, b or c then it should be scrutinised by a non believer, one that will be honest. And one we know that is a true non believer, not some person pretending they've just "came round" after witnessing themselves for the first time.

Zari, I wouldn't worry about that happening mate, no one has these abilities as far as I'm concerned!
I've said before, I think it would open up a whole knew understanding, with even more follow up questions as to where it could take us. But sadly I never see it happening.

Peace

Jay
Glasgow

{Ed001's Note - Dawkins is as much of a fake as any psychic, he just toes the line big business wants him to, in my opinion. If you want to trust a man like that, go ahead, but he is one of those 'scientists' who have moved away from what science should be about - discovery of new ideas. Randi is a man who makes his living out of debunking people, why on earth would he want to even consider the possibility of someone actually having psychic powers when he would then have to find a new career? Those millions he is making out of dupes like you hanging on his every word would soon dry up. As for Brown, he is just a conman, the only difference is that his living is made out of conning people and then telling them he has conned them afterwards. Hardly a character to be respected and trusted!

As for the rest, why should you be able to do that? That is just childish. Just because something is not what you say, you are going to call it fake? That is truly close minded, unlike your claims to an open mind. You do this every time Jay, you come on here and dismiss anything that doesn't fit into your narrow minded view and refuse to discuss or open your mind to any other possibility.

Surely the whole idea is to find out what the reality is, rather than demanding it to be the way you want it to be or it doesn't count as real?}

 
Hi Lucas, psychic Sally, and that other clown john Edward really are terrible human beings.

Hi franky, fair enough mate, each to their own eh?

Peace

Jay
Glasgow

 
Like you said mate we will not agree on everything, good thought provoking post.

 
Ed, you've got to be joking mate? Dawkins fake as psychics? Really? Get a grip. Have you read any of his books? I doubt you have because with that comment you made you clearly know nothing of the man.
I also don't hang on every word they say either, I merely take some of what they say on board, because they use SCIENCE to prove things. Not pseudoscience. You think homeopathy works to? Lol
Having your wee "narrow minded" jabs at me is fine mate, take it that means your view is narrow minded because it's not the same as mine? You'll see from the hundreds of posts I've had on here through the years, that I'm not a narrow minded person. But you can keep your opinion anyway, means nothing to me what you think, as i'm sure, the feeling is mutual.
You say because I don't agree with what some think on here I'm narrow minded, so if we don't agree then one of us is narrow minded? Bit silly and immature don't you think?

Peace

Jay
Glasgow

{Ed001's Note - can you read? Because you are making up things, just as you did the last time we disagreed, to try and make your narrow minded views seem correct and mine seem silly. It is pointless arguing with you as you can't understand anything said to you, you just bitch back at everything said you disagree with. I am not going to bother with you again, it is pointless, you refuse to read and understand anything said to you, just constantly counter with ridiculous and idiotic ripostes. I have not mentioned homeopathy or said that pyschics are real, but you continue to bitch about things I haven't said to counter any reply I make.}

 
Jay, there was a friend of my wife who had been to see Sally at least four times and was extolling the virtues of her. Even my wife, who sort of believed she was genuine turned to me half way through as said "should we go?". The only thing that kept me there was the fact that I'd paid for the tickets!

 
Surely if the person getting the psychic in to give them comfort and help put their mind at rest about someone they've lost, then surely that person can maybe finally be at ease, for example the husband that's lost his wife and hasn't been able to sleep for the lost feeling inside can now feel at ease if they are told their wife is at their side watching over them, giving someone hope or happiness can't be that much of a bad thing can it?

 
Another reason for people with real abilities to keep quiet is that if one did come forward how long till their in a military lab somewhere being put under all sort of tests to find out what causes the ability and can it be recreated.

 
I don't buy into the soothsayers myself either, but my dad died 3 years ago, in the early hours of the morning, and I kept waking up thinking the phone was ringing, and knew something wasn't right, then the call arrived from my sister.