18 Oct 2015 12:03:32 Kim, the point about political correctness was not aimed at you - I should have made that clear. But there is a lot of it that goes on when people broach subjects like this which makes them difficult to discuss.
Personally I believe the number of victims to be very important and never understood the argument that it isn't. Not because it makes it a better or worse act, but from the point of view of why were we told such half truths in the first place? What is the origin of those facts that later turn out to be false? These are important questions, the answers to which will help us to understand when and how we are being lied to again. I read once that the only source for the figure of 6 million was a nazi who had been tortured during the Nuremburg trials. He could have been forced to say it for all we know but regardless of that its a very flimsy source of info that was used to support what we thought was a fact about the figure of 6 million later to find out it was no fact.
When you then read about a Jewish prophesy dating back to the late 1800's stating that Israel would be created once 6 million Jews had been sacrificed - the figure itself seems to be very significant indeed.
Taking into account the Balfour declaration during ww1 and the treaty of Versailles between the wars - it would seem that a lot of the conditions for the wars were manipulated and controlled by people more powerful than any prime minister or president. Then as we all know - the state of Israel followed, as was prophesised many years earlier.
I don't think anybody is apologising for hitler, I'm sure he was a very ruthless man, which in turn made him the perfect puppet. The nazi's did many heinous crimes which nobody sane would support. But all I'm interested in is finding the true version of events, then finding out why that version differs from the original narrative - and who stood to benefit from that.
You talk about all these thousands of bits of evidence that support the official narrative yet many of those have been eroded away over the years, some of which I've mentioned in my original post. So I don't feel like I'm wrong to question these things, if others hadn't have done so we wouldn't know today things like the real uses of zyclone b, the revision of the numbers who died, the fact there was no gas chamber in dachau, that Jewish skin and flesh was not made into lampshades/soap. there's much more than that too believe me. So I think its important we question these things.
The term revisionism is sometimes labelled at people who have questioned the official narrative and its a term that has been used with negative connotations I. e. Making out those people to be trouble makers or even disrespecting the dead. What's interesting is that over the years the official narrative has had to be revised in the light of many questions asked by those searching for the truth. I don't see revisionism as a bad thing because after all we know the saying about 'the victors write the history books'.
I do agree with you about the focus being on Jewish prisoners and I think that only goes to highlight the agenda at play here. The Zionists had wanted Israel created for a long time and finally got their wish in the back drop of what happened in those camps, the narrative of the persecution of jews supported their actions.
I do not support or apologise or defend hitler and his party. But I want to know the full truth and I want to understand the purpose of the the lies as well as the truth.
18 Oct 2015 10:06:28 I'm in no way politically correct.
Lets get one thing straight. The nazis were filth. Eugenics is disgusting. The idea of removing people from the gene pool because they don't fit some ideal version is reprehensible.
It doesn't matter if they murdered sixty thousand or six million. Its just a statistic. Its the act itself that matters. It's the thought process behind it. What annoys me is the fixation on the Jewish victims to the exclusion of everyone else. I. e. the disabled, the homosexual, the political opponents.
There are literally thousands of items of evidence that this happened yet for some reason there is a group of hitler apologists out there trying to discredit events. In itself this is a conspiracy. I question the motive.
And also not to mention the other crimes perpetuated by the nazi regime. In creating such a regime which allowed the erosion of basic human decency and encouraging the view of your enemies as sub human this created an environment where the likes of Oradour or Wormhoudt could happen.
As someone said above psychopaths usually end up in charge. I think that says a lot about the human race.
Stalin, Yezhov, Beria, Hitler, Himmler, Amin, Mao, Milosevic. There have been many monsters who's underlings have committed atrocities in the name of some misguided ideal. What about the Americans at My Lai or Fallujah. Pick a terrorist group. The human race can't help itself.
Back to Hitler. Whatever his redeeming points he still started a war with the intention of conquering a large part of my country and removing by any means a large part of the population in order to create living room for the Germans. This is undeniable. Twenty million of my countrymen and women died in this war for one lunatics dream of empire. That's a third of the population of this island. Yet some people defend him.
17 Oct 2015 22:37:00 Kim is it really black and white though? I think not
I'm personally very sceptical about the official narrative surrounding the goings on at the camps. The fact that the official narrative has had to be amended heavily over the years as certain 'facts' were proved not to be fact - says a lot. We were told 6 million Jews were systematically killed but where is the evidence of that? Turns out that figure has had to be decreased as people questioned the facts.
The Nuremburg trials have been shown to be a white wash in many ways, who were the people making judgements? Were the nazi's interrogated under torture? If so, I'm not sure how relevant that testimony is. We were told zyclone b was used to gas people but actually we now know it was used to clean the bed sheets and dorms of prisoners. Why would this be done if indeed the plan was to kill the prisoners all along? I'm of the opinion that these camps were set up for forced labour not as death camps, the nazi's needed that labour in their attempts to win the war so killing off all of their work force would make little sense.
There is evidence that many or most of the prisoners at the camps died from typhoid or starvation as the war came to an end but that version of events would not support the official narrative which led eventually to the creation of the state of Israel as a refuge for the persecuted Jews. I think it was Dachau camp where we were told of stories of mass gassings also? Only to find out later that there wasn't even a gas chamber there?
And then the propaganda stating that the skin of Jews was used to make lamp shades and their flesh made into bars of soap - only to be discovered later that those claims are baseless. When the establishment version of events is used as a political football (in creating Israel etc) only for us to find out that many elements of that narrative were either false or mis-interpreted - I have a big issue with that.
As you allude, I believe hitler and the nazi's were funded by Zionist Jews. If true, there is a much bigger picture here than one evil man doing as he pleases.
This topic is very close to my heart but whenever you even broach the subject with most people you get looks akin to those aimed at a serial killer. Its amazing how powerful a tool political correctness is to the elite. I also have a problem with that.
17 Oct 2015 19:33:19 The thing is there are very few people at the top who ain't monsters. Hitler tried to force the psychos at the top out, now we are playing the long game.
17 Oct 2015 17:09:48 I don't think of it in terms of right or wrong. Too many shades of grey. Stalin was a paranoid psychopath who saw enemies everywhere and the people suffered with his demands for quotas of traitors to be rounded up. Millions died through collectivisation. But industrialisation turned the soviet union into a world power. Was him winning the war a better or worse result than hitler?
Both have good and bad points. Both caused suffering for millions.
Many on the british left hero worship Stalin despite his actions. Yet he was arguably a bigger monster than hitler.
17 Oct 2015 09:44:48 Expulsion is one thing. Genocide is something totally different. Especially as you say of a people themselves not evil. And given that its a small cabal of Jews how many of them were affected?
Also you can argue that hitler himself was a Zionist agent. More than likely unwittingly. But where did the money come from? Who backed him?
17 Oct 2015 09:55:46 Also I don't like this revisionism of hitler as some sort of visionary.
Yes the man had several redeeming characteristics. Yes he was one of the greatest politicians ever and the finest orator the world has seen. One can respect an opponent even if you disagree or condemn them.
But let's not forget he was responsible for one of the vilest regimes ever to infect the planet. A regime that murdered millions. And not just the Jews. Gypsies, homosexuals, mentally and physically handicapped, were these Zionists? The millions of Poles, Ukrainians and Russians killed just because they were slavs? Communists?
Sure you can argue that it was all faked. But its there in black and white. Mein kampf. The Nuremberg laws. The t4 programme. The memoirs and testimonies of people who were there.
No people has suffered as much in the 20th century as the Russians. Imperialism, revolution, civil war, famine, Stalin, hitler, communism.
17 Oct 2015 10:15:17 Anyway i'd like to go back to the original point.
Putin is a strong leader. People respond to strong leaders. Obama is one of the weakest presidents I've ever seen. Easily the weakest since Carter. Whereas Bush jr was stupid (although winning 2 elections is not something accomplished by an idiot) Obama is viewed as weak in many places around the world. Putin knows he just has to push and Obama will fold. For now Putin is picking fights he knows he can win but is avoiding anything he expects resistance to. At some point he will get over confident and push too hard. Sound familiar?
17 Oct 2015 10:40:59 I think it was all or nothing in WW2 even though many Jews lost their life it was the single biggest victory for them, after ww2 they became bulletproof. It's a very touchy subject my dad almost gets physical with me when I suggest that the wrong side won the war.
17 Oct 2015 06:56:07 Ed033, Do you really think hitler was on to something? I've talked to a few guys from Poland and about 20% of them seem to think hitler was misunderstood. They don't want to go deep into the conversation, that's up to them and I won't push them on it. What do you think edd? What do the rest of you guys think?
16 Oct 2015 22:42:46 The blood that the British spilt in WW2 was all for nothing because what we fought for tooth and nail is now been given away. a complete waste of life and unfortunately the people who publicy stand and speak out are more often than not numb skulls with very poor literacy! which in turn cheapens the real truth!
political correctness is the greatest weapon that has hammered this country into the ground. you can't have any view on it without been branded a racist. The plan that was put in place to take this country was perfect because its gone bye bye. Ed you mentioned about the mass migration and the free moving of people through Europe plan (cant remember what it was called but you said that the politically correct would go nuts if it was printed) but I never heard it before and read up on it and its what I have always thought.
its very difficult to mention hitler and ww2 without people blowing up so i'll put it as an open question. Did hitler see what was coming? ed033 your thoughts please.
16 Oct 2015 22:40:08 The greatest story never told was a thought provoking piece of journalism and certainly challenges modern day history teachings. I will never consider what I've been told as true as actual fact again and will look at what opposite views are before deciding for myself. In saying that years of brainwashing has left it very difficult to think outside the box. Another victim of the system.
16 Oct 2015 21:42:00 it's an interesting theory about mental health patients being more tuned to dimensions than the majority of people. I have thought about that myself a few times, what if they can really see/hear evil demons? my mate is a band 5 or 6 mental health nurse, so he has worked in ashworth ( Ian Brady Moors murder) and some of the stories these patients come out with would make your skin crawl.
There was a strange story he once told me about a well spoken man from somewhere in Africa (cant remember where) who was admitted into my mate's unit. not your typical patient and to cut a long story short the patient was convinced he had a voodoo spell put on him from someone from a different nation.
When someone is admitted there is usually a paper trail, name address, history etc., with this guy there was next to nothing. my mate the next day speaks to the guy to build up a trust about he is here to help him. the guy tells my mate he is a diplomat aid or something like that and was terrified that he was going to die because of this curse. my mate tells him he will be looked after and not to worry. he clocks in work the next day, the patient is gone, checked out, no paper trail again. he asked his boss what happened, his boss said he got orders to move him somewhere else, never heard or seen him again.
16 Oct 2015 21:36:14 If that's the case it has to be the better of the 2 evils? The discussion earlier has highlighted 20-40 years to save the world. Maybe this is the beginning. I myself think that the fear of something greater than human is quelling a usually gung ho Zionists American influenced NATO.
15 Oct 2015 20:11:36 Philippines are expecting up to 1m of rain over 4 days and 160 mph winds. Never heard of a rainfall like that before. About 10mm per hr. Thousands in danger I'd imagine.
HoneyBadger · 18 Oct 2015 11:07
