29 Jul 2015 09:44:40 nor mine but dialogue needs to be open and in my view it should be open tv dialogue so we can see exactly what both parties want ,then it will give a better understanding to the people , after all we are sending our children to these warzones and our taxes are proping up certain regimes , to many things are done behind closed doors and I for one do not trust the spiel that one group are bad and do other group are good.
by the way corbyn is taking heat for his stance on talking to hamas but a lot of people don't know in the late 70s and 80s he kept a dialogue with sinn fein and was castigated for it , now like I said gerry addam is shaking hands with the queen who lost a relitive to the ira , weird the press do not mention corbyns stance in the past don't you think?
28 Jul 2015 23:19:05 And yes I do applaud Miliband for saying no to Syria, best avoiding that mess all together.
Wish i'd had more success in saying no to Syria, horrid place, some very nasty people in charge.
Your not going to get peace until there's a change in mindset on both sides. However both sides are waging a war of extermination. So I don't think it'll happen in my lifetime.
28 Jul 2015 18:25:51 like most people we want peace and the only way for peace is dialogue ,now answer me this gerry adams has met the queen, the family the ira targeted in the 70s/80s ,there had to be talks between the two groups, yes? and corbyn wants all concerened round a table . not easy I know but give milliband his due he said no to going into syria .
28 Jul 2015 17:19:29 The infighting will continue because it suits others. They are doing all they can do to stoke it. The conservatives are even telling their activists to sign up to the labour party to vote for corbyn.
Burnham I can't comment on but it wouldn't surprise me. Politician jumps on tragedy for personal gain, who would believe it.
I believe Ms Berger is Jewish, so of course she's in groups like friends of Israel. She must get on fantastically with corbyn who thinks hezbollah are a bunch of misunderstood innocents.
28 Jul 2015 16:07:38 yep strange that ,not into drugs or guns (yet ha) got the browser more for research stuff that can find me better links as google takes you in to the mainstream search and also it montors you,a women who was a ex mi5 agent uses a different browser but I was having a lot of problems with it so I got shut.
28 Jul 2015 15:43:37 ive seen it my friend buying some weed using tor. I told him he was crazy to buy weed and get it delivered all the way to malaysia. he's only going to get himself in trouble.
but the package arrived. now I don't think he is lying to me, as here we only get dried weed sold in blocks the size of bricks. the item delivered was still green and I've never seen green weed my whole life till that point.
anyways i'm just trying to say it is true, although I did not ask how my friend got his bitcoins as you can only purchase using bitcoins. I prefer not to go into this stuff so I just listened to him. there's more than just drugs there I can assure you, I also saw fake ids and passports.
28 Jul 2015 15:08:24 Funny you should mention that Zionist john Mann has gone public about stopping this election and it will be the in fighting of the party that will derail Corbyn chances not his policies',my own local mp miss Luciana"friends of Israel" Berger has gone very public on her support for Andy Burnham.
My point being this is a revolution of the labour party we are seeing and the backing from real labour people towards corbyn should tell you something,right since I mentioned Burnham I will mention my conspiracy view on him,this will probably upset a few reds but it has been nagging away at me since his name was put up to be the next leader.
I have family and friends who want him to win this election because of his link to Hillsborough and a guy on twitter tweeted something about Burnham,it was a cryptic tweet but I got what he meant ,in my opinion Burnham was always going to be groomed to be the next leader and what better credentials than to be a respected mp in one of the strongest labour cities in the UK?
Yes I am not denying he helped the process move along but let's not kid ourselves the families of the 96 did this not anyone from parliament,they forced the doors open and this was always going to come out and I honestly think whoever advised the labour party told him to use this as a career move,me personally I think he's a shill.
28 Jul 2015 14:56:42 if the infighting continues yes I can see that happening , I am hoping they weed out the guys and girls who are keepng silent like more local mp, the liz kendells and chuka of this world truly believe in being right wing central it's the others that worry me more.
btw edd I wrote a post last night about andy burnham just wondering if you received it?
28 Jul 2015 13:21:26 You could argue that this has already happened with Blair succeeding John Smith and subsequent events.
I think labour is already ruined and I predict it splitting into two parties, one on the blairite wing trying to occupy the left centre ground, maybe even merging with what's left of the liberal democrats, and the left wingers becoming ever more left wing and forming an outright socialist party.
27 Jul 2015 21:53:45 Franky you didn't read what Morty put, most of those he listed were I the 20s and voted conservative. An old guy like corbyn with 30 year old policies won't attract the youth vote.
A true left wing party us a scary thing as they inhabit a land of ide policy. Not the real world of practicality.
I know corbyns type, I dealt with a few labour party and union figures, I wouldn't hold out hope that he's your hero.
27 Jul 2015 20:52:46 yes you did make sense what I may not be putting across is these people you mentioned in there 40s/homeowners who voted tory will also be hit by the austerity cuts, people who earn £40/50k a year which is very good money for the normal joe are being targeted next , like I said in my posts about america middle class being hit , its going to happen here,
as for the benfits spiel , yes we all know chavs who abuse the system but its a tiny proportion in comparision to what's been put out on the tv propaganda machine.
as for corbyn himself he will get the younger vote , even milliband had the 18/24 vote in the last election , also corbyn will get a lot of green and liberal votes with his stance on trident ,even I could see a few ukip swayed with his views on europe regarding the TTIP trade that they are trying to rush thru,and finally the snp , I can see a coalition between the labour and the snp ,milliband was tempted but his right wing peers prob scared him off,
the media drum it everyday that you can not be a true left wing party , why? because they want the people thinking for themselves ,that old quote is so very true "united we stand divided we fall"
Something needs to change but is driving to the left the way? Back in the 80's Franky we were unelectable as a party, it was only when Blair scrapped Clause 4 and started sucking up to the middle class that we won elections. As soon as they had got what they wanted they swanned off back to the Tories to leech more out of them. And that does include tax credits. The worst ones for taking those are the middle classes, and I think that's what KimPhilby might have been getting at. Tax credits were brought in for the poorest to help them catch up with the rest but once again its something that's been abused. Like the benefits system when you see 3 generations of the same family with none of them with any intention of going out to work. The few make a bad anme for the rest and create easy propaganda for the tories to attack the welfare system.
I do agree to an extent with country going more right wing and i'll provide an example. My constituency was Labour from 1992 to 2010 when it was lost to the tories. The tory chap won with a majority of just 54 votes, it went to a recount as that's how close it was. 54 votes. Smallest or 2nd smallestmajority in the country. 54 votes.
2015 election it was Labours number 1 target. It was the sort of seat they had to take back from the tories to win the elction. The bloke who won in 2010 was even stepping down. Labour in their arrogance put up the guy who lost in 2010 as candidate again. The result? A tory win with a majority of 2900. So in 5 years my town and the surrounding towns and villages have gone from a tory majority of 54 to 2900, that's some swing Franky. It was a seat Labour had to win and they ran a piss poor campaign. And that was repeated across the country.
Ed was an inept, arrogant and frankly odd chap. Very pleasant on his own, butt he minutes he started waffling about policy. I know he was doomed when his first speech after winning the leadership election he said "we must do more for the middle class" from a Labour leader. The blunt truth is Labour abandoned the working class, stuff like the 10p tax cut and opening the doors to all sorts of immigrants coming in doing the same jobs on less wages was 2 fingers up to the working class. Thast why a lot went and voted UKIP.
The day afetr the election I did a quick snapshot of my colleagues:
woman mid 40's: voted tory always voted tory, parents were tory woman mid 40's: voted tory sick of spongers man late 20's: voted tory, seemed like the best choice. man mid 20's: just bought a house and the tory's seem to be best for home owners. man early 20's: tory sick of spongers woman early 20's: tory sick of spongers looking at buying house. man: mid 30's: green as felt abandoned by labour couldn't vote for anyone else. woman early 30's: tories offering more.
Thats the results I polled the Friday after, so at least in my own area people did move to the right. And that was repeated across the midlands. Seats Labour had to win either went blue or stayed blue.
Scotlands a different issue and i'd rather not get into that.
I do think what were looking at is a repeat of the 80's. Labour needs to refind its identity and its soul and reconnect with the core working class voter and unfortunately what I've seen of Corbyn so far he isn't the man to do it. The average voter today doesn't want old rehashed policies from the early 80's. Its all very well saying an end to war, but you know the tories will play on that in an age of global terror (even if they cause most of it, people are too thick to realise that) The average person today only cares about what's in their own pocket and nobody else.
I think Corbyn will win the leadership, and I think the troy propaganda sheets will have an open season. I don't think the guy will even make it to the next election, and even if he does, i'm sorry Franky I just don't see a Labour win.
I hope all that made sense, i've been reading this all day and been bursting to get home and put something up.
27 Jul 2015 16:58:39 milliband was neither fully left or right, hence he never ticked any boxes as for scotland independence was not sorly the reason why the snp are the major party ,its the policies regarding the topics I mentioned in my original post that mirror corbyns views.
the only thing I agree with ukip is ,i do not want to be part of europe and more mass migration , but that's a different topic for another day.
why are people relying on tax credits? because firms/corporations are not paying a living wage that's why ,my wife got made redundent a few years ago and applied for roughly 30 to 40 jobs per week ,she got a zero hours contract with this firm who pay her minimum wages while they get roughly double what she gets, now luckly she has got a job back in the nhs part time but that is a touch above minimum wages ,so unless you are a skilled worker (and even that could be minimum wage)then your employer are not going to give you the living type of wages.
i can not speak for russia but my type of socialism is not the regime your grew up with.
27 Jul 2015 13:33:35 If the masses wanted socialism they would have voted for Miliband. Outside of the big northern cities like Manchester and Liverpool and inner city London and Birmingham labour lost. And even in those places support eroded.
Scotland voted snp because of the independence farce, and a few people are now regretting voting with their emotions. As like ukip the snp is a one trick one issue party lacking an answer to any serious economic question.
Why are people relying on tax credits?
I grew up in a socialist country. A real socialist country. It wasn't fun. It was a bloody grim hard slog. I loved the fact I had a job that enabled me to live and travel in the west and all you had to offer. And as soon as the great experiment collapsed the first chance I had I moved to the west. Took EU citizenship and moved to Britain. And I only took EU because I couldn't get British. So I'm no ukipper either as under them i'd be getting thrown out too.
But I've spent the last 30 years viewing the effects of state socialism across Europe, and it doesn't work. Great soundbites but unworkable. And someone like corbyn isn't the answer.
27 Jul 2015 11:53:04 labour have lost there roots that's why the tories won the election , they got massacred in scotland and wales because there was no real difference between the two parties also thru in ukip who have took many votes with the migrant card and you have splintered party,with there right wing stance LAB WILL NEVER GET IN SCOTLAND again and also parts of wales so in my view they have to get corbyn in,as you are correct things have to get worse under this torie government and they will , ever 17 to 24 will be on a pittance frozen pay, every disabled person will have any help slashed not to mention noramal working people who rely on tax credits are going to get shafted so I do not understand your view that britain is becoming more right wing ,politics is becoming more right wing that's why jeremy corbyn excites the people because he speaks for the masses .
27 Jul 2015 09:42:48 Britain as a country is becoming more right wing not less. Look at how labour were expecting to win the last election on a left based platform. The results were a conservative win.
Back in the early 80s one of the jobs I had to do at the embassy in London was a complete analysis of the British political situation and the prospects of a socialist takeover either peacefully through the ballot box or by revolution largely instigated by the trades unions. My conclusion was unlikely on the first case and impossible on the second case. Since then the country has moved right, thatcher, privatisation of services, right to buy, Blair taking labour right, the coalition, its taken England as a country right with a few left pockets in the inner cities. Scotland is a left leaning country.
I think the prospects of a labour win in 2020 are slim. More likely in 2025. But history shows a left wing dominated labour party does not win elections. Things will have to get very bad first.
That's just my assessment. As a non native unbiased observer. As I say I did it as a job. I could be wrong. But I don't see corbyn winning. There's a reason the conservatives want him to win.
26 Jul 2015 23:20:17 totally dissagree kim , we are moving into the phase of not just lower working class getting screwed but now also the so called middle class, the proof is there to been seen in the usa , a famous rock star who is pretty grounded and is still friends with people before he got famous has been quoted and interviewed that he never thought this could happen in the usa ,people who were pretty well off ,now were losing there homes or were homeless and people are wising up to the fact that part of the reason is the war machine is costing billions if not trillions of dollars and pounds.
if you listen to him he is the only person who you get a straight answer and that will get people interested also the policies I have mentioned including one I forgot ,solar energy ,he wants to go big on using mother nature , I forget the country but more than half of their energy comes from the weather which surprised me.
if this feller gets in I think we will have had enough of the right wing greed policies also the continuing rising utility /transport/housing also the dismantling of the nhs will hit loved ones even if they think they are well off.
i have always thought a revolution is needed to get my country back ,if corbyn gets in this will be a peaceful one ,if he does not the 1980s riots under thatcherisum will happen and I do not want to see that happen again.
frankyscouser · 29 Jul 2015 08:53