26 Jul 2015 16:44:01
i do not want to get political on this site but I will. for a long long time in fact it's never happened before in my 47 years that I am excited about a political leader that could be in power. I am talking about jeremy corbyn. i am not naive to think he will change the world but he is the last of a dying breed in the labour party.
He's getting attacked for his policies on:
1. end austerity
2. no wars
3. scrapping trident
4. affordable homes
5. public transport owned by the people
6. anti fracking
7. taxing massive corporations who don't pay any tax.
i have always voted labour, even when they went right wing or as they call it, central. this feller is different and it has backfired as they put him up as a token gesture, never thinking he could inspire people. as a result they have all turned on him. the media/ tories and now his own mps. they even brought that vampire of innocent blood, blair out.
why? because they are worried that he can not be bought or bribed.
We moan a lot on this site, me included but for the price of a pint, make a statement and get this feller in power.
text balance
78555
it will cost you £3
you will get a call the following day around 6-7 pm where you give your details, postcode name etc.
once you are registered you will be sent ballot papers on 14 august where you can either post your choice or do it online.
let's make a stand instead of accepting our fate.
there is a few more issues related to this post that are more conspiracy related which I will post once this vote is over,
i just want to stick to this for now
cheers franky
power to the people.
{Ed033's Note - Thanks for the positive, solution based post.
26 Jul 2015 17:35:51
will try send the link of my phone.
will try send the link of my phone.
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26 Jul 2015 21:23:18
Good post Franky, nice to look at the positives for a change.
Good post Franky, nice to look at the positives for a change.
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26 Jul 2015 21:38:45
The same platform that the labour party ran on in the early 1980s. Most of which policies originated in the Kremlin.
Corbyn might win the party election, but he's got very little chance of winning a general election.
The same platform that the labour party ran on in the early 1980s. Most of which policies originated in the Kremlin.
Corbyn might win the party election, but he's got very little chance of winning a general election.
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26 Jul 2015 23:20:17
totally dissagree kim , we are moving into the phase of not just lower working class getting screwed but now also the so called middle class, the proof is there to been seen in the usa , a famous rock star who is pretty grounded and is still friends with people before he got famous has been quoted and interviewed that he never thought this could happen in the usa ,people who were pretty well off ,now were losing there homes or were homeless and people are wising up to the fact that part of the reason is the war machine is costing billions if not trillions of dollars and pounds.
if you listen to him he is the only person who you get a straight answer and that will get people interested also the policies I have mentioned including one I forgot ,solar energy ,he wants to go big on using mother nature , I forget the country but more than half of their energy comes from the weather which surprised me.
if this feller gets in I think we will have had enough of the right wing greed policies also the continuing rising utility /transport/housing also the dismantling of the nhs will hit loved ones even if they think they are well off.
i have always thought a revolution is needed to get my country back ,if corbyn gets in this will be a peaceful one ,if he does not the 1980s riots under thatcherisum will happen and I do not want to see that happen again.
totally dissagree kim , we are moving into the phase of not just lower working class getting screwed but now also the so called middle class, the proof is there to been seen in the usa , a famous rock star who is pretty grounded and is still friends with people before he got famous has been quoted and interviewed that he never thought this could happen in the usa ,people who were pretty well off ,now were losing there homes or were homeless and people are wising up to the fact that part of the reason is the war machine is costing billions if not trillions of dollars and pounds.
if you listen to him he is the only person who you get a straight answer and that will get people interested also the policies I have mentioned including one I forgot ,solar energy ,he wants to go big on using mother nature , I forget the country but more than half of their energy comes from the weather which surprised me.
if this feller gets in I think we will have had enough of the right wing greed policies also the continuing rising utility /transport/housing also the dismantling of the nhs will hit loved ones even if they think they are well off.
i have always thought a revolution is needed to get my country back ,if corbyn gets in this will be a peaceful one ,if he does not the 1980s riots under thatcherisum will happen and I do not want to see that happen again.
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27 Jul 2015 09:42:48
Britain as a country is becoming more right wing not less. Look at how labour were expecting to win the last election on a left based platform. The results were a conservative win.
Back in the early 80s one of the jobs I had to do at the embassy in London was a complete analysis of the British political situation and the prospects of a socialist takeover either peacefully through the ballot box or by revolution largely instigated by the trades unions. My conclusion was unlikely on the first case and impossible on the second case. Since then the country has moved right, thatcher, privatisation of services, right to buy, Blair taking labour right, the coalition, its taken England as a country right with a few left pockets in the inner cities. Scotland is a left leaning country.
I think the prospects of a labour win in 2020 are slim. More likely in 2025. But history shows a left wing dominated labour party does not win elections. Things will have to get very bad first.
That's just my assessment. As a non native unbiased observer. As I say I did it as a job. I could be wrong. But I don't see corbyn winning. There's a reason the conservatives want him to win.
Britain as a country is becoming more right wing not less. Look at how labour were expecting to win the last election on a left based platform. The results were a conservative win.
Back in the early 80s one of the jobs I had to do at the embassy in London was a complete analysis of the British political situation and the prospects of a socialist takeover either peacefully through the ballot box or by revolution largely instigated by the trades unions. My conclusion was unlikely on the first case and impossible on the second case. Since then the country has moved right, thatcher, privatisation of services, right to buy, Blair taking labour right, the coalition, its taken England as a country right with a few left pockets in the inner cities. Scotland is a left leaning country.
I think the prospects of a labour win in 2020 are slim. More likely in 2025. But history shows a left wing dominated labour party does not win elections. Things will have to get very bad first.
That's just my assessment. As a non native unbiased observer. As I say I did it as a job. I could be wrong. But I don't see corbyn winning. There's a reason the conservatives want him to win.
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27 Jul 2015 11:53:04
labour have lost there roots that's why the tories won the election , they got massacred in scotland and wales because there was no real difference between the two parties also thru in ukip who have took many votes with the migrant card and you have splintered party,with there right wing stance LAB WILL NEVER GET IN SCOTLAND again and also parts of wales so in my view they have to get corbyn in,as you are correct things have to get worse under this torie government and they will , ever 17 to 24 will be on a pittance frozen pay, every disabled person will have any help slashed not to mention noramal working people who rely on tax credits are going to get shafted so I do not understand your view that britain is becoming more right wing ,politics is becoming more right wing that's why jeremy corbyn excites the people because he speaks for the masses .
labour have lost there roots that's why the tories won the election , they got massacred in scotland and wales because there was no real difference between the two parties also thru in ukip who have took many votes with the migrant card and you have splintered party,with there right wing stance LAB WILL NEVER GET IN SCOTLAND again and also parts of wales so in my view they have to get corbyn in,as you are correct things have to get worse under this torie government and they will , ever 17 to 24 will be on a pittance frozen pay, every disabled person will have any help slashed not to mention noramal working people who rely on tax credits are going to get shafted so I do not understand your view that britain is becoming more right wing ,politics is becoming more right wing that's why jeremy corbyn excites the people because he speaks for the masses .
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27 Jul 2015 13:33:35
If the masses wanted socialism they would have voted for Miliband. Outside of the big northern cities like Manchester and Liverpool and inner city London and Birmingham labour lost. And even in those places support eroded.
Scotland voted snp because of the independence farce, and a few people are now regretting voting with their emotions. As like ukip the snp is a one trick one issue party lacking an answer to any serious economic question.
Why are people relying on tax credits?
I grew up in a socialist country. A real socialist country. It wasn't fun. It was a bloody grim hard slog. I loved the fact I had a job that enabled me to live and travel in the west and all you had to offer. And as soon as the great experiment collapsed the first chance I had I moved to the west. Took EU citizenship and moved to Britain. And I only took EU because I couldn't get British. So I'm no ukipper either as under them i'd be getting thrown out too.
But I've spent the last 30 years viewing the effects of state socialism across Europe, and it doesn't work. Great soundbites but unworkable. And someone like corbyn isn't the answer.
If the masses wanted socialism they would have voted for Miliband. Outside of the big northern cities like Manchester and Liverpool and inner city London and Birmingham labour lost. And even in those places support eroded.
Scotland voted snp because of the independence farce, and a few people are now regretting voting with their emotions. As like ukip the snp is a one trick one issue party lacking an answer to any serious economic question.
Why are people relying on tax credits?
I grew up in a socialist country. A real socialist country. It wasn't fun. It was a bloody grim hard slog. I loved the fact I had a job that enabled me to live and travel in the west and all you had to offer. And as soon as the great experiment collapsed the first chance I had I moved to the west. Took EU citizenship and moved to Britain. And I only took EU because I couldn't get British. So I'm no ukipper either as under them i'd be getting thrown out too.
But I've spent the last 30 years viewing the effects of state socialism across Europe, and it doesn't work. Great soundbites but unworkable. And someone like corbyn isn't the answer.
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27 Jul 2015 16:58:39
milliband was neither fully left or right, hence he never ticked any boxes as for scotland independence was not sorly the reason why the snp are the major party ,its the policies regarding the topics I mentioned in my original post that mirror corbyns views.
the only thing I agree with ukip is ,i do not want to be part of europe and more mass migration , but that's a different topic for another day.
why are people relying on tax credits? because firms/corporations are not paying a living wage that's why ,my wife got made redundent a few years ago and applied for roughly 30 to 40 jobs per week ,she got a zero hours contract with this firm who pay her minimum wages while they get roughly double what she gets, now luckly she has got a job back in the nhs part time but that is a touch above minimum wages ,so unless you are a skilled worker (and even that could be minimum wage)then your employer are not going to give you the living type of wages.
i can not speak for russia but my type of socialism is not the regime your grew up with.
milliband was neither fully left or right, hence he never ticked any boxes as for scotland independence was not sorly the reason why the snp are the major party ,its the policies regarding the topics I mentioned in my original post that mirror corbyns views.
the only thing I agree with ukip is ,i do not want to be part of europe and more mass migration , but that's a different topic for another day.
why are people relying on tax credits? because firms/corporations are not paying a living wage that's why ,my wife got made redundent a few years ago and applied for roughly 30 to 40 jobs per week ,she got a zero hours contract with this firm who pay her minimum wages while they get roughly double what she gets, now luckly she has got a job back in the nhs part time but that is a touch above minimum wages ,so unless you are a skilled worker (and even that could be minimum wage)then your employer are not going to give you the living type of wages.
i can not speak for russia but my type of socialism is not the regime your grew up with.
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27 Jul 2015 19:02:19
i agree with both.
Something needs to change but is driving to the left the way? Back in the 80's Franky we were unelectable as a party, it was only when Blair scrapped Clause 4 and started sucking up to the middle class that we won elections. As soon as they had got what they wanted they swanned off back to the Tories to leech more out of them. And that does include tax credits. The worst ones for taking those are the middle classes, and I think that's what KimPhilby might have been getting at. Tax credits were brought in for the poorest to help them catch up with the rest but once again its something that's been abused. Like the benefits system when you see 3 generations of the same family with none of them with any intention of going out to work. The few make a bad anme for the rest and create easy propaganda for the tories to attack the welfare system.
I do agree to an extent with country going more right wing and i'll provide an example. My constituency was Labour from 1992 to 2010 when it was lost to the tories. The tory chap won with a majority of just 54 votes, it went to a recount as that's how close it was. 54 votes. Smallest or 2nd smallestmajority in the country. 54 votes.
2015 election it was Labours number 1 target. It was the sort of seat they had to take back from the tories to win the elction. The bloke who won in 2010 was even stepping down. Labour in their arrogance put up the guy who lost in 2010 as candidate again. The result? A tory win with a majority of 2900. So in 5 years my town and the surrounding towns and villages have gone from a tory majority of 54 to 2900, that's some swing Franky. It was a seat Labour had to win and they ran a piss poor campaign. And that was repeated across the country.
Ed was an inept, arrogant and frankly odd chap. Very pleasant on his own, butt he minutes he started waffling about policy. I know he was doomed when his first speech after winning the leadership election he said "we must do more for the middle class" from a Labour leader. The blunt truth is Labour abandoned the working class, stuff like the 10p tax cut and opening the doors to all sorts of immigrants coming in doing the same jobs on less wages was 2 fingers up to the working class. Thast why a lot went and voted UKIP.
The day afetr the election I did a quick snapshot of my colleagues:
woman mid 40's: voted tory always voted tory, parents were tory
woman mid 40's: voted tory sick of spongers
man late 20's: voted tory, seemed like the best choice.
man mid 20's: just bought a house and the tory's seem to be best for home owners.
man early 20's: tory sick of spongers
woman early 20's: tory sick of spongers looking at buying house.
man: mid 30's: green as felt abandoned by labour couldn't vote for anyone else.
woman early 30's: tories offering more.
Thats the results I polled the Friday after, so at least in my own area people did move to the right. And that was repeated across the midlands. Seats Labour had to win either went blue or stayed blue.
Scotlands a different issue and i'd rather not get into that.
I do think what were looking at is a repeat of the 80's. Labour needs to refind its identity and its soul and reconnect with the core working class voter and unfortunately what I've seen of Corbyn so far he isn't the man to do it. The average voter today doesn't want old rehashed policies from the early 80's. Its all very well saying an end to war, but you know the tories will play on that in an age of global terror (even if they cause most of it, people are too thick to realise that) The average person today only cares about what's in their own pocket and nobody else.
I think Corbyn will win the leadership, and I think the troy propaganda sheets will have an open season. I don't think the guy will even make it to the next election, and even if he does, i'm sorry Franky I just don't see a Labour win.
I hope all that made sense, i've been reading this all day and been bursting to get home and put something up.
i agree with both.
Something needs to change but is driving to the left the way? Back in the 80's Franky we were unelectable as a party, it was only when Blair scrapped Clause 4 and started sucking up to the middle class that we won elections. As soon as they had got what they wanted they swanned off back to the Tories to leech more out of them. And that does include tax credits. The worst ones for taking those are the middle classes, and I think that's what KimPhilby might have been getting at. Tax credits were brought in for the poorest to help them catch up with the rest but once again its something that's been abused. Like the benefits system when you see 3 generations of the same family with none of them with any intention of going out to work. The few make a bad anme for the rest and create easy propaganda for the tories to attack the welfare system.
I do agree to an extent with country going more right wing and i'll provide an example. My constituency was Labour from 1992 to 2010 when it was lost to the tories. The tory chap won with a majority of just 54 votes, it went to a recount as that's how close it was. 54 votes. Smallest or 2nd smallestmajority in the country. 54 votes.
2015 election it was Labours number 1 target. It was the sort of seat they had to take back from the tories to win the elction. The bloke who won in 2010 was even stepping down. Labour in their arrogance put up the guy who lost in 2010 as candidate again. The result? A tory win with a majority of 2900. So in 5 years my town and the surrounding towns and villages have gone from a tory majority of 54 to 2900, that's some swing Franky. It was a seat Labour had to win and they ran a piss poor campaign. And that was repeated across the country.
Ed was an inept, arrogant and frankly odd chap. Very pleasant on his own, butt he minutes he started waffling about policy. I know he was doomed when his first speech after winning the leadership election he said "we must do more for the middle class" from a Labour leader. The blunt truth is Labour abandoned the working class, stuff like the 10p tax cut and opening the doors to all sorts of immigrants coming in doing the same jobs on less wages was 2 fingers up to the working class. Thast why a lot went and voted UKIP.
The day afetr the election I did a quick snapshot of my colleagues:
woman mid 40's: voted tory always voted tory, parents were tory
woman mid 40's: voted tory sick of spongers
man late 20's: voted tory, seemed like the best choice.
man mid 20's: just bought a house and the tory's seem to be best for home owners.
man early 20's: tory sick of spongers
woman early 20's: tory sick of spongers looking at buying house.
man: mid 30's: green as felt abandoned by labour couldn't vote for anyone else.
woman early 30's: tories offering more.
Thats the results I polled the Friday after, so at least in my own area people did move to the right. And that was repeated across the midlands. Seats Labour had to win either went blue or stayed blue.
Scotlands a different issue and i'd rather not get into that.
I do think what were looking at is a repeat of the 80's. Labour needs to refind its identity and its soul and reconnect with the core working class voter and unfortunately what I've seen of Corbyn so far he isn't the man to do it. The average voter today doesn't want old rehashed policies from the early 80's. Its all very well saying an end to war, but you know the tories will play on that in an age of global terror (even if they cause most of it, people are too thick to realise that) The average person today only cares about what's in their own pocket and nobody else.
I think Corbyn will win the leadership, and I think the troy propaganda sheets will have an open season. I don't think the guy will even make it to the next election, and even if he does, i'm sorry Franky I just don't see a Labour win.
I hope all that made sense, i've been reading this all day and been bursting to get home and put something up.
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27 Jul 2015 20:52:46
yes you did make sense what I may not be putting across is these people you mentioned in there 40s/homeowners who voted tory will also be hit by the austerity cuts, people who earn £40/50k a year which is very good money for the normal joe are being targeted next , like I said in my posts about america middle class being hit , its going to happen here,
as for the benfits spiel , yes we all know chavs who abuse the system but its a tiny proportion in comparision to what's been put out on the tv propaganda machine.
as for corbyn himself he will get the younger vote , even milliband had the 18/24 vote in the last election ,
also corbyn will get a lot of green and liberal votes with his stance on trident ,even I could see a few ukip swayed with his views on europe regarding the TTIP trade that they are trying to rush thru,and finally the snp , I can see a coalition between the labour and the snp ,milliband was tempted but his right wing peers prob scared him off,
the media drum it everyday that you can not be a true left wing party , why? because they want the people thinking for themselves ,that old quote is so very true "united we stand divided we fall"
yes you did make sense what I may not be putting across is these people you mentioned in there 40s/homeowners who voted tory will also be hit by the austerity cuts, people who earn £40/50k a year which is very good money for the normal joe are being targeted next , like I said in my posts about america middle class being hit , its going to happen here,
as for the benfits spiel , yes we all know chavs who abuse the system but its a tiny proportion in comparision to what's been put out on the tv propaganda machine.
as for corbyn himself he will get the younger vote , even milliband had the 18/24 vote in the last election ,
also corbyn will get a lot of green and liberal votes with his stance on trident ,even I could see a few ukip swayed with his views on europe regarding the TTIP trade that they are trying to rush thru,and finally the snp , I can see a coalition between the labour and the snp ,milliband was tempted but his right wing peers prob scared him off,
the media drum it everyday that you can not be a true left wing party , why? because they want the people thinking for themselves ,that old quote is so very true "united we stand divided we fall"
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27 Jul 2015 21:53:45
Franky you didn't read what Morty put, most of those he listed were I the 20s and voted conservative. An old guy like corbyn with 30 year old policies won't attract the youth vote.
A true left wing party us a scary thing as they inhabit a land of ide policy. Not the real world of practicality.
I know corbyns type, I dealt with a few labour party and union figures, I wouldn't hold out hope that he's your hero.
Franky you didn't read what Morty put, most of those he listed were I the 20s and voted conservative. An old guy like corbyn with 30 year old policies won't attract the youth vote.
A true left wing party us a scary thing as they inhabit a land of ide policy. Not the real world of practicality.
I know corbyns type, I dealt with a few labour party and union figures, I wouldn't hold out hope that he's your hero.
{Ed033's Note - If corbyn gets to be labour leader and sticks with his true beliefs and policies numbered above, then the crown/zionist agents within the labour party will ruin the labour party until corbyn leaves and is replaced by a crown/zionist agent as normal.
Because labour will appear to be ruined, they should never win a general election under corbyn but in the unlikely event they did win a general election, corbyn would then suffer an unexplained heart attack such as previous labour leader, John Smith's unexplained heart attack.
Because labour will appear to be ruined, they should never win a general election under corbyn but in the unlikely event they did win a general election, corbyn would then suffer an unexplained heart attack such as previous labour leader, John Smith's unexplained heart attack.
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28 Jul 2015 13:21:26
You could argue that this has already happened with Blair succeeding John Smith and subsequent events.
I think labour is already ruined and I predict it splitting into two parties, one on the blairite wing trying to occupy the left centre ground, maybe even merging with what's left of the liberal democrats, and the left wingers becoming ever more left wing and forming an outright socialist party.
You could argue that this has already happened with Blair succeeding John Smith and subsequent events.
I think labour is already ruined and I predict it splitting into two parties, one on the blairite wing trying to occupy the left centre ground, maybe even merging with what's left of the liberal democrats, and the left wingers becoming ever more left wing and forming an outright socialist party.
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28 Jul 2015 14:56:42
if the infighting continues yes I can see that happening , I am hoping they weed out the guys and girls who are keepng silent like more local mp, the liz kendells and chuka of this world truly believe in being right wing central it's the others that worry me more.
btw edd I wrote a post last night about andy burnham just wondering if you received it?
if the infighting continues yes I can see that happening , I am hoping they weed out the guys and girls who are keepng silent like more local mp, the liz kendells and chuka of this world truly believe in being right wing central it's the others that worry me more.
btw edd I wrote a post last night about andy burnham just wondering if you received it?
{Ed033's Note - i remember reading about an andy burnham post but got side tracked with Michael Of Bernicia's video on what was known about the history of Britain prior to the 1666 official zionist takeover of Britain. I'll get to it in a bit.
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28 Jul 2015 15:08:24
Funny you should mention that Zionist john Mann has gone public about stopping this election and it will be the in fighting of the party that will derail Corbyn chances not his policies',my own local mp miss Luciana"friends of Israel" Berger has gone very public on her support for Andy Burnham.
My point being this is a revolution of the labour party we are seeing and the backing from real labour people towards corbyn should tell you something,right since I mentioned Burnham I will mention my conspiracy view on him,this will probably upset a few reds but it has been nagging away at me since his name was put up to be the next leader.
I have family and friends who want him to win this election because of his link to Hillsborough and a guy on twitter tweeted something about Burnham,it was a cryptic tweet but I got what he meant ,in my opinion Burnham was always going to be groomed to be the next leader and what better credentials than to be a respected mp in one of the strongest labour cities in the UK?
Yes I am not denying he helped the process move along but let's not kid ourselves the families of the 96 did this not anyone from parliament,they forced the doors open and this was always going to come out and I honestly think whoever advised the labour party told him to use this as a career move,me personally I think he's a shill.
Funny you should mention that Zionist john Mann has gone public about stopping this election and it will be the in fighting of the party that will derail Corbyn chances not his policies',my own local mp miss Luciana"friends of Israel" Berger has gone very public on her support for Andy Burnham.
My point being this is a revolution of the labour party we are seeing and the backing from real labour people towards corbyn should tell you something,right since I mentioned Burnham I will mention my conspiracy view on him,this will probably upset a few reds but it has been nagging away at me since his name was put up to be the next leader.
I have family and friends who want him to win this election because of his link to Hillsborough and a guy on twitter tweeted something about Burnham,it was a cryptic tweet but I got what he meant ,in my opinion Burnham was always going to be groomed to be the next leader and what better credentials than to be a respected mp in one of the strongest labour cities in the UK?
Yes I am not denying he helped the process move along but let's not kid ourselves the families of the 96 did this not anyone from parliament,they forced the doors open and this was always going to come out and I honestly think whoever advised the labour party told him to use this as a career move,me personally I think he's a shill.
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28 Jul 2015 17:19:29
The infighting will continue because it suits others. They are doing all they can do to stoke it. The conservatives are even telling their activists to sign up to the labour party to vote for corbyn.
Burnham I can't comment on but it wouldn't surprise me. Politician jumps on tragedy for personal gain, who would believe it.
I believe Ms Berger is Jewish, so of course she's in groups like friends of Israel. She must get on fantastically with corbyn who thinks hezbollah are a bunch of misunderstood innocents.
The infighting will continue because it suits others. They are doing all they can do to stoke it. The conservatives are even telling their activists to sign up to the labour party to vote for corbyn.
Burnham I can't comment on but it wouldn't surprise me. Politician jumps on tragedy for personal gain, who would believe it.
I believe Ms Berger is Jewish, so of course she's in groups like friends of Israel. She must get on fantastically with corbyn who thinks hezbollah are a bunch of misunderstood innocents.
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28 Jul 2015 18:25:51
like most people we want peace and the only way for peace is dialogue ,now answer me this gerry adams has met the queen, the family the ira targeted in the 70s/80s ,there had to be talks between the two groups, yes? and corbyn wants all concerened round a table . not easy I know but give milliband his due he said no to going into syria .
like most people we want peace and the only way for peace is dialogue ,now answer me this gerry adams has met the queen, the family the ira targeted in the 70s/80s ,there had to be talks between the two groups, yes? and corbyn wants all concerened round a table . not easy I know but give milliband his due he said no to going into syria .
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28 Jul 2015 23:13:27
Some people you just can't talk to as they don't want peace.
Some people you just can't talk to as they don't want peace.
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28 Jul 2015 23:19:05
And yes I do applaud Miliband for saying no to Syria, best avoiding that mess all together.
Wish i'd had more success in saying no to Syria, horrid place, some very nasty people in charge.
Your not going to get peace until there's a change in mindset on both sides. However both sides are waging a war of extermination. So I don't think it'll happen in my lifetime.
And yes I do applaud Miliband for saying no to Syria, best avoiding that mess all together.
Wish i'd had more success in saying no to Syria, horrid place, some very nasty people in charge.
Your not going to get peace until there's a change in mindset on both sides. However both sides are waging a war of extermination. So I don't think it'll happen in my lifetime.
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29 Jul 2015 09:44:40
nor mine but dialogue needs to be open and in my view it should be open tv dialogue so we can see exactly what both parties want ,then it will give a better understanding to the people , after all we are sending our children to these warzones and our taxes are proping up certain regimes , to many things are done behind closed doors and I for one do not trust the spiel that one group are bad and do other group are good.
by the way corbyn is taking heat for his stance on talking to hamas but a lot of people don't know in the late 70s and 80s he kept a dialogue with sinn fein and was castigated for it , now like I said gerry addam is shaking hands with the queen who lost a relitive to the ira , weird the press do not mention corbyns stance in the past don't you think?
nor mine but dialogue needs to be open and in my view it should be open tv dialogue so we can see exactly what both parties want ,then it will give a better understanding to the people , after all we are sending our children to these warzones and our taxes are proping up certain regimes , to many things are done behind closed doors and I for one do not trust the spiel that one group are bad and do other group are good.
by the way corbyn is taking heat for his stance on talking to hamas but a lot of people don't know in the late 70s and 80s he kept a dialogue with sinn fein and was castigated for it , now like I said gerry addam is shaking hands with the queen who lost a relitive to the ira , weird the press do not mention corbyns stance in the past don't you think?
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29 Jul 2015 12:59:23
Different times. Sinn Fein just wanted the British out of ulster and a united Ireland and for the most part attacked military and political targets, only when that wasn't working they started hitting soft targets like Warrington.
The likes of Hamas etc want a Jew free middle east and have a stated aim of extermination. I don't think anyone in the ira ever said the solution was to slaughter the whole population of Britain.
Regards the middle east its complicated. The Israelis claim its ancestral land but then steal land off others and are ethnically cleansing the place. The arabs as stated want their land but won't acknowledge any Jewish claims. Some even want all western presences removed. But then you have the west that wants the oil. So until someone bends it's not happening. That's an over simplication of things but essentially the core positions.
Don't get me wrong parts of the region are very nice. Even some of the people are nice. But the people in charge are very bad. I got dragged over on a regional tour, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, on a fact finding out mission. You've never experienced anything like it. This is the dangers of being good at your job but in the doghouse, you get the unpleasant jobs.
Wondered off topic a bit there. The problem is further complicated because the people who should sort this out, the united nations, is useless. Is this not why it was created? Instead it splits along political faultlines. Britain sides with America for the oil, Russia backs its arab clients states and the Chinese just make themselves a nuisance. So its an impasse.
Different times. Sinn Fein just wanted the British out of ulster and a united Ireland and for the most part attacked military and political targets, only when that wasn't working they started hitting soft targets like Warrington.
The likes of Hamas etc want a Jew free middle east and have a stated aim of extermination. I don't think anyone in the ira ever said the solution was to slaughter the whole population of Britain.
Regards the middle east its complicated. The Israelis claim its ancestral land but then steal land off others and are ethnically cleansing the place. The arabs as stated want their land but won't acknowledge any Jewish claims. Some even want all western presences removed. But then you have the west that wants the oil. So until someone bends it's not happening. That's an over simplication of things but essentially the core positions.
Don't get me wrong parts of the region are very nice. Even some of the people are nice. But the people in charge are very bad. I got dragged over on a regional tour, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, on a fact finding out mission. You've never experienced anything like it. This is the dangers of being good at your job but in the doghouse, you get the unpleasant jobs.
Wondered off topic a bit there. The problem is further complicated because the people who should sort this out, the united nations, is useless. Is this not why it was created? Instead it splits along political faultlines. Britain sides with America for the oil, Russia backs its arab clients states and the Chinese just make themselves a nuisance. So its an impasse.
{Ed001's Note - you haven't even mentioned people like the Kurds, who everyone else is trying to exterminate. Especially the Turks, who have been conducting ethnic cleansing operations for years.}
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29 Jul 2015 13:53:32
agree with most points but attacking a man who would rather get all sides together instead of using drones or men is how sick this regime is.
agree with most points but attacking a man who would rather get all sides together instead of using drones or men is how sick this regime is.
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29 Jul 2015 14:04:17
The reason I didn't is because its a complicated enough situation with just the arabs, the Israelis and the Americans. Add in Turkey, Iran, and the Kurdish question and you see how complex it becomes. Then you have other religious minorities, ethnic minorities, its too complex to go into any detail. It wasn't my intention to ignore others, as I said it was a simplification.
The Turks are another nasty bunch, they do like a bit of genocide.
The problem is there's no easy solution. Give the Kurds a homeland you upset everyone else. Don't give them one and your condoning genocide. Whatever you do your going to upset somebody.
The reason I didn't is because its a complicated enough situation with just the arabs, the Israelis and the Americans. Add in Turkey, Iran, and the Kurdish question and you see how complex it becomes. Then you have other religious minorities, ethnic minorities, its too complex to go into any detail. It wasn't my intention to ignore others, as I said it was a simplification.
The Turks are another nasty bunch, they do like a bit of genocide.
The problem is there's no easy solution. Give the Kurds a homeland you upset everyone else. Don't give them one and your condoning genocide. Whatever you do your going to upset somebody.
{Ed001's Note - it is about time the Turks were brought to book for what they are doing. As for upsetting people, who cares, you can't make everyone happy so may as well do the right thing and not worry about who it upsets.}
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29 Jul 2015 14:48:00
Wasn't that the attitude at Versailles? Look at the trouble that created. Yugoslavia was a compromise that ended in ethnic genocide, war crimes and ethnic cleansing.
I think the problem is who do you upset, each side has their own bigger brother so to speak.
Yes but Turkey is in theory on the wests side so nothing will happen.
Wasn't that the attitude at Versailles? Look at the trouble that created. Yugoslavia was a compromise that ended in ethnic genocide, war crimes and ethnic cleansing.
I think the problem is who do you upset, each side has their own bigger brother so to speak.
Yes but Turkey is in theory on the wests side so nothing will happen.
{Ed001's Note - Versailles was about revenge, totally different thing. I am talking about doing what ended up happening with Yugoslavia, and just splitting it all up into its constituent parts, ie Kurdistan. Yes you will upset people there, but it is the best hope for a long lasting solution. By forcing people to stay a part of a country they don't want to belong in, when they are in the vast majority of the area they are in, you are just asking for trouble. Spain is another country that will never truly be united.}
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29 Jul 2015 17:15:26
I do agree. I was talking about Versailles regards the Germans, yes that was revenge. Yugoslavia as created in 1919 was never going to last and the irony is it was communism and titos force of personality that held it together post world war 2. When it did collapse it did in bloodshed.
Syria, Iraq, Palestine are all also post world war 1 artificial constructs also collapsing in bloodshed.
Going back, who imposes the peace? The Americans would be accused of doing whatever benefits them. The Zionists same. If Russia interfered what would the west say.
I do agree. I was talking about Versailles regards the Germans, yes that was revenge. Yugoslavia as created in 1919 was never going to last and the irony is it was communism and titos force of personality that held it together post world war 2. When it did collapse it did in bloodshed.
Syria, Iraq, Palestine are all also post world war 1 artificial constructs also collapsing in bloodshed.
Going back, who imposes the peace? The Americans would be accused of doing whatever benefits them. The Zionists same. If Russia interfered what would the west say.
{Ed001's Note - sadly I think humankind is its own worst enemy, no matter what happens bloodshed will result and no one will ever agree. You are right though, whoever tries to impose peace will be accused of things, but the problem is that the accusations are usually correct.}
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29 Jul 2015 18:11:08
you are right about to a certain degree about humankind, I would say at a guess 98% of the population could live in harmony with each other, the only problem we are governed by madmen , they only way we all could unite is if there was a threat to mankind from let's say aliens .
you are right about to a certain degree about humankind, I would say at a guess 98% of the population could live in harmony with each other, the only problem we are governed by madmen , they only way we all could unite is if there was a threat to mankind from let's say aliens .
{Ed002's Note - It is far from 98% and being governed by "madmen" is far from the only problem Franky.}
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29 Jul 2015 18:56:47
maybe yep I forgot about religeon as well.
maybe yep I forgot about religeon as well.
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