06 Nov 2011 18:28:24 Not really a conspiracy as such........ How woul… · #419

Try waiting for the next election.

You say most people don't want it. And i agree a coalition isn't the greatest. But i didn't want a Labour government and based on votes cast nor did most people in the country as the lib dems and the tories together got more votes.

The only people who don't want the coalition are the lazy fat cat public sector workers who are waking up to the fact that they will have to share some of the pain the rest of us have had to put up with over the last 3 years.

Take my place of work for example.

2008 no pay rise. %00 job losses.
2009 no pay rise
2010 no pay rise (delayed till new tax year)
2011 pay rise but at 50% less of what would have had in previous years. More job losses.

Throw in the soaring cost of living and the last 3 years have not been a picnic.

Yet look at the public sector. I mean we had binmen in Brum on strike cos they were moaning about too much work, and then we find out the average wage was 27k a year!! I'd love to earn that. A binman on 27k a year for gods sake, no wonder people are fed up with councils.

The bloody teachers are a joke as well. All those holidays and they still moan.

So no mate, things aren't ideal but its about time the public sector was dragged into order and made to run more efficently.

O and yeah stuff does need to ne cut but the labour ran councils are doing it in spite to make things look bad, like Manchester for example cutting libraries and swimming pools to hurt ordinary people when their sat oon 60 million in the bank and could easily just get rid of all the non jobs in the city hall.

Have you ever been in side a town hall or city hall? They even have a tea trolley lady. My place we have to make our own. Talk about pampered.

Another exampe. Coventry City Council. 950 Public sector jobs have gone in Coventry since the elction, half of that in the council alone. So if they can axe almost 500 jobs, then did these people need to be employed in the first place? i guess not. {Ed001's Note - I am not one of those, but I don't want the coalition government, so your generalisation is untrue. In fact I doubt there are many that do want this coalition, especially not amongst those who voted for the Lib Dems, most of their votes came from people who wanted neither Tories or Labour in power.}

On a less serious note, having watched V for Vendetta last night you could go and do that.

Its still a democratically elected govt, popular or not.

the Miners managed to remove the Heath govt in 1974 through the general strike.

They tried to repeat the trick on Thatcher in 1984 and failed.

I do think the unions would love to have a repeat performance but this isn't a Tory govt its a coalition and popular support for the unions isn't what it was 40 years ago.

Yes Ed it was a bit of a generalisation, i think no-one at all wanted a coalition but thats what we got thanks to the system of having 3 parties. The Lib Dems were always going to hold the balance of power. Which is why i voted against that AV thing because we would have been in this mess after every election.

The thing is there really isn't anything to be done about it apart from hoping that next time there is an outright winner.

But at the end of the day we couldn;t have had labour after the mess they made. And a straight Tory govt, well we know how that would have turned out. As i see it the Tories have the balls to make the unpopular decsions Labour couldn't or wouldn't make and we need the Lib Dems in there to act as some sort of conscience and rain them in a bit when they start frothing at the mouth.

But i still stand on what i said about the Public Sector. it is in desperate need of reform. Labour had their chance and did nothing to reform only throw money at it. The money needs to be better spent. {Ed001's Note - I don't see how having yet another bunch of liars in charge helps with that?}

Ed i do see what you are saying and the political classes are full of liars, most of them being failed lawyers after all. But the alternative is what? Most people are apathetic anyway. {Ed001's Note - that is the problem, apathy, for starters voting should be compulsory rather than optional. Secondly any MP should not be allowed to have any kind of second job, if they have time for a second job they are not doing their job correctly as an MP. I don't have all the answers though, that would be a start, it would cut out the MPs who are purely there for money. After that, well who knows, but at least that's a start.}

Agreed Ed voting should be compulsory, enough people have made sacrifices for the privilge.

Also agreed on banning them from having 2 jobs. Might ease up on the corruption.

Should also ban any family members from working for them, blood relations or by marriage as well. I know most of them marry secretaries but can always get another one.

I'd also like to see some sort of requirement as well that opens it up to more ordinary people. can't really explain this well, but it always seems to be the same poeple. laywers like Blair, toffs like Cameron or people like the Milibands who have never lived in the real world. If there were more people in there from say an ordinary background who had had to struggle for a living for a few years and had more of a grounding with what the people they reperesent required it might help. if that makes sense. not sure how you would do that though. {Ed001's Note - that's because no one outside of a privileged background can easily raise the cash needed to stand as an MP. That needs to be changed, you are right there, it is easy to forget that side of it.}

Yeah think thats what i meant. Something like a 500 quid bond isn't it? Half a months wages before the tax man has finished for me.
If they opened it up a bit more then we could see some changes but thats what they are afraid of so can't see it happening for a while. {Ed001's Note - I agree, last thing they want is MPs who actually truly represent the people they are supposed to represent.}

Ed001 well if most people who voted lib dem did so because they wanted neither Conservatives nor Labour in power as you say then all they were doing was lodging a protest vote since for the past few generations it has always been Con or Lab. As for making voting compulsory I am not bothered either way about that but if people cannot be bothered to vote anyway then all you get is another batch of protest or spoiled votes. More to the point those who don't vote shouldn't moan about how things in the country are going.
To the earlier poster on public sector pay and conditions...he is exactly right ...scandalous situation we are in..it is partly weak management in negotiating with unions (over very many years) bear
in mind councils don't have shareholders to answer to and partly Labour when in power creating their own 'pet voters' It is no coincidence that towns returning large labour majorities often have large government depts in the constituency.
'Keep the public sector workers happy and they will keep voting us in'

Puzzled {Ed001's Note - actually you will find that in a lot of constituencies they are either Labour or Tory. There is no way Labour will win in a Tory area or Tory win in a Labour area, so a lot of people will vote Lib Dem in the hope that they might get in instead.}

Yeah god forbid lol. Good chat Ed, think we should be running things! {Ed001's Note - last thing I would want to do is be in charge! Then I would have no one to blame but myself if it went wrong! Plus, I don't feel I would be the best person to do it, I would worry far too much about every decision, knowing just how much it really affects people if I make the wrong choice. In fact even the right choice will affect people.}

Ed that makes you the right person, in that you would worry. I doubt Dave or Gordon ever lay awake at night.

Agreed on the Lib Dem voting thing, it tends to be mainly students based on what i've seen. Tories will always do well in the South, labour in the North and its the Midlands that decides things as these Midland seats tend to sway from one to the other.

Puzzled cheers for the support on public sector. These people really piss me off on the news all this moaning about being made to do what the rest of us had to do anyway over the last 3 years, what makes them so special? They are there to serve me yet it often feels like i am serving them. And they are often awful to deal with, all rude and arrogant.

Ed001 has Goldman-sachs behind him, don't
trust him. Ed033 gets my vote,i like the cut of
that mans jib.
JR {Ed033's Note - Thanks JR}

Ed001 I am loathe to disagree with someone who has the power to decide whether my post appears or not BUT I
do not think that the government 'departments' are anything like evenly spread across Con AND Lab constituencies...and if we look at great swathes of our homeland (and a great proportion labour controlled) there are very many areas where at least one in four of those employed are in the public sector. Those people (and their immediate families) will probably vote for the party they believe more likely to maintain or even increase the public sector. So they vote labour. Labour wants to retain these votes and so public sector jobs, 'like Topsy, just growed'.
As regards people voting LIb Dem in the hope of sneaking in ahead of Con or Lab I think a lot of these votes are tactical
ie Labour voters in a Tory controlled seat - where the Labour party has no chance - voting Lib Dem in the hope they will get in and the Con will not. Vice versa in a Lab controlled seat etc etc

Puzzled {Ed001's Note - I agree with you, but you are talking about a small proportion of the population mate. Hardly going to make a difference. Very few family members are going to vote based on their brother, for instance, working in the public sector. They will vote based on what is best for their own situation.}

Re the poster wanting more 'ordinary' people to be able to stand instead of 'toffs' - anyone can stand - just need to get a few signatures proposing your candidature and stump up the (losable) deposit. But unless you are VERY well know locally or are leading a very big local bandwagon you have no chance of election. Majority of electors vote for
the party not the candidate.

As regards toffs - whilst it would be wrong to generalise - you don't get toffs standing for labour. All you need is to work your way up a trade union (Ughh)
or be a teacher (lecturer?) in a polytechnic. Neither of those backgrounds strikes me as being capable of making someone 'at one' with their electorate. Parliament is not FULL of toffs
but it is almost full of deadwood

Puzzled

Ed i know people that vote labour just cos their retired parents worked for the council, its all a case of how your brought up.

That said i come from a family with strong union connections.

Puzzled, i know anyone can stand, but how many ordinary people can put up £500 for a deposit that in all likelihood you are going to lose?

Ordinary people such as myself or the Ed or Bob the Builder have very little chance of becoming a candidate for a mainstream party like the tories or Labour, as we're not a part of the establishment of either of those parties, we don't have the connections etc. Therefore our only hope really is an independent, and well there goes your deposit.

There have been quite a few toffs sneaking into the Labour ranks over the years, the likes of Blair, the Milibands etc, not many but not what my old grandad would have called "proper" Labour. My gran hated Blair, callled him a Tory in a Red Tie.

As for Trade Unions i think they are a total irrellevance these days, most of the stuff they do is covered under European law anyway, and all they do is cause misery for ordinary people by always striking at the most inconvenient times and they seem to exist just to make their bosses richer, a sort of if the bankers can do it why can't we sort of attitude.

Agreed though that Parliament is full of deadwood.