05 Dec 2011 22:16:24 ed apparently (according to americans) they save… · #595

{Ed033's Note - Allegedly the Germans let the British escape at Dunkirk.}

Why let us escape ed? {Ed001's Note - Hitler was a known Anglophile and harboured hopes of an alliance to conquer the world together. That is why it is alleged that his tactical error at Dunkirk was done deliberately.}

My dad reads a lot of books regarding WW1 and 2, he told me Hitler proposed a peace treaty with Britain saying Britain could have everything west of Berlin while the Nazi's controlled everything east. Has anybody else heard of this?

always a red

{Ed033's Note - I don't we can have a proper informed discussion on here about Hitler because of everything that has been said since WW2

True or not would you have trusted him?

True he did order the panzers to stop short of the beaches, can't remember the reaosn given something to do with supplies. {Ed001's Note - I wouldn't trust him, he was clearly delusional.}

Well he had previous what with the Munich agreement which is why i think we rejected any offers made.

I wasn't suggesting the deal should have been taken, just that it may have been offered. Delusional is putting it nicely ed the man was insane.
Its just with all that happened during that time and more importantly just after its hard to believe the mainstream history books.

always a red

The russians ended the war, After pursuing the germany army through Russia and back to germany with hand to hand combat to clear buildings in germany until they got to the building where hitler was, hitler knew what was in store for him so he commited suicide.

Although the Russians are not popular and hollywood has scripted in thousands of movies that america won the war, so we all believe america won the war.

Its a pity the Russians are not in the EU as Germany needs to be stopped yet again.

It's ironic that one of the reasons why Germany was allowed to re-arm past the Versailles Treaty restrictions was for Germany to be a buffer to stop Russia expanding and taking control of the whole of Europe

It was a joint effort, after all ourselves and later the yanks kept the Russians supplied with materials like radios and trucks. This allowed all Russian production to be focused on tanks and guns and the like.

Bear in mind the early versions of the t34 were horrible and didn't have radio's so tank commanders couldn't communicate with each other and each tank was effectively a single unit on the battlefield. The Germans having radios were more organised and could overwhelm the Russians.

Once we started supplying them with radios they could communicate more effectively and organise into better units. With other imprrovements the t34 vastly improved its performance and the Red Army rolled over everything.

The trucks helped as well, compared to the Germans reduced to carts and horses.

So it was a team effort gents.

I can't imagine the yanks supplying the russians with anything.

The russians wanted to buy SAAB and/or Opel a few years back both american owned the sale of either company was blocked to the russians.

Do you stilll think america supplied them with Radio's?

Also most of the technology america has such as HARRP and Remote Viewing were stolen from Russia, your source of information mate is not good.

Russian tanks were no match for the german tanks it was the russians bravery (or stupidity depending on your viewpoint) & weather that drove the germans out of russia then the Russians hunted the Nazis down building by building in hand to hand combat.


What use would a radio have been to the russian tanks since their tanks could not take a shell from the German tanks without being destroyed? {Ed001's Note - that is nonsense, the T34 (and heavier Russian tanks) were far superior to the German equivalents at the time. The Germans made a better tactical use of their equipment, which enabled them to match the Russians, but they did not have better tanks. In fact the T34 was so good that the Germans copied the design, you might know it as the Panther.}

The German tanks had heavier plating and bigger canons mounted on them as usual you are confused, here we go again just like the famine! {Ed001's Note - they brought those in because the Russian tanks outgunned and had better armour in the early period of the war. If you actually took the time to read things, you would see that the comment was talking about how the Germans were originally stopped. The bigger guns and better armoured tanks were not introduced until 1943, after the Germans had been stunned by having to face the T34 and other heavier Russian tanks. The Tiger and later German tanks were introduced purely to counter those, too late and in too small numbers to really affect the outcome of the war. It is not me who is confused.}

Well it depends who you are reading and what you are reading.

The russian tanks and troops out numbered the german tanks and troops and the the german tanks out muscled the russian tanks. What become the panther after the war is irrelevant, also the engines in the russian tanks were poor and prone to break down unlike the german tanks that were more reliable. Russia won this war by the sacrifice of its soldiers.

If you took the time to read it yourself you would see I have mainly posted on the "fact" by others that that Russia was supplied with Radios by the allies/america so it was a joint effort. Ha ha

Russsia has never accepted any help from any other Country even in "peace Times" its not the Russian way even when their Sailors were lying at the bottom of the bearing sea they sought no help.

And I doubt Russia received any communications equipment from the allies.

Of course you may want to re-write history and you are always right about everything just like sop many issues here I usually stay away from your posts as its impossible to get a point over, why don't I just do that? {Ed001's Note - the Germans were the ones that suffered reliability problems, their tanks couldn't handle the cold. Being petrol engined, rather than diesel, unlike Russian tanks, the petrol and oil would freeze. The Russians were accepting aid, if you knew anything about the murderous Atlantic convoys you would know they were transporting thousands of tons of Allied aid to the Russians. Why are you talking about what became the Panther after the war? Nobody mentioned that, it was about how it was a copy of the T34 during the war, because the T34 was superior to the German tanks. This is simple schoolboy level history, why are you finding it so difficult to understand?}

Hi Ed i was the one who put up about the radio's. I'm going to look up a few figures for the other guy.

There were 78 convoys between August 1941 and May 1945

About 1400 merchant ships delivered vital supplies to the Soviet Union under the Lend-Lease program, escorted by ships of the Royal Navy, Royal Canadian Navy, and the U.S. Navy. Eighty-five merchant vessels and 16 Royal Navy warships (two cruisers, six destroyers, eight other escort ships) were lost.

These convoys enabled Russia to keep going whilst they rebuilt all their heavy industry in Siberia.



"I can't imagine the yanks supplying the russians with anything."

Well they did. It was a team effort. Stop being anti american. Briatin was at one point 6 weeks away from starvation so the yank supplies kept us going never mind the Russians.

The russians wanted to buy SAAB and/or Opel a few years back both american owned the sale of either company was blocked to the russians.

Do you stilll think america supplied them with Radio's?"

I fail to see the relevance of something from 60-65 years later. And yes they and us supplied them with food, radio's ammo. trucks etc allowing them to focus on tank production.

"Also most of the technology america has such as HARRP and Remote Viewing were stolen from Russia, your source of information mate is not good."

Really, i'd worry about that paranoia. Also i think your source of information is even worse. Your really saying that EVERY SINGLE book on the war, and there have been a lot are wrong? O well maybe i'd better phone up Kershaw and Bullock and the rest and tell them to retire.

"Russian tanks were no match for the german tanks it was the russians bravery (or stupidity depending on your viewpoint) & weather that drove the germans out of russia then the Russians hunted the Nazis down building by building in hand to hand combat."

You've never heard of the Battle of Kursk? Prokhorovka?

The Germans noted a fundamental flaw in their armored vehicles, particularly the Elefant. Although excellent against any Soviet tank at long to medium range, they lacked secondary armament and were vulnerable to attacks from Soviet slit trenches, once they were separated from the heavy machine gun protection of the lighter tanks, vehicles and infantry.

"What use would a radio have been to the russian tanks since their tanks could not take a shell from the German tanks without being destroyed? "

As i said in my original post if you had bothered to read it, radio'#s allowed soviet tank regiment commanders to better co-ordinate with their squadron commnaders and them to organise their tanks much better, they became more effective units.

Also the t34 was a very good tank, i've read interviews with crew from panzer 4's where they say their shells were just bouncing off unless they were at close range. Thats why they rushed up the Tiger, Panther and Elephant designs.

I know this is from wikipedia but i'm in a hurry and the further eading may help.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-34

Me again sorry Ed, i brought up the Arctic convoys cos my Great Uncle Alf served on a couple of those and the old boy said it was awful. He never used to wear a coat in winter just walk about in shirt and tie, when asked he said i survived those bloody convoys, english winter is a picnic! {Ed001's Note - I just realised I said Atlantic didn't I earlier? I meant Arctic! Silly mistake to make that, d'oh! They were said to be the worst places to be, an absolute nightmare.}

Well to be fair they crossed the Atlantic first.

O Alf had some stories, horrible place to be. Freeze to death in seconds, banned from smoking, had to wrap up. Guys losing skin from touching exposed metal.

Of course we did this just for a giggle, cos the Russians never accepted any help... {Ed001's Note - exactly, was just a holiday cruise really......}

Yeah sounds about right ed.

The USA turned it's auto industry over to armaments for the allies long before they got involved in the fighting.

Len

Were these the same convoys uncle Albert was on when his lighter frose?

Tales from John Sullivan?

Well if russia found hitler why did they say they lost his body? how could u loose hitlers body? Russia beat everyone to berlin but tecnically usa ended the war because the dropped two nuked on japan after germanys surrender {Ed001's Note - actually the Japanese had agreed to surrender before the nukes were dropped, the Americans wanted to test them both though.}