15 Sep 2011 08:15:05
First off nice page guys.
I enjoy reading conspiracies, not sure if I believe any or some or none, but I do have a question for you all.
Why is it that if someone believes a conspiracy they are open minded but if they don't they are closed minded?
Surely those who believe are just as closed minded just for the other side of the argument!
I do also find it is hard to get at any real truth as often the people who write about the conspiracies have a major vested interest (starchild, it's the owner who is adament it is an alien, in a similar vein most people who own crystal skulls are the same. Moon rising director obviously wants to sell more videos etc.) even as these things are debunked they go on pushing it, just look at the complete rubbish about mirage cities in China, a quick look at google earth shows exactly where the supposed mirage is built!
In many ways there is little difference between some "believers" of conspiracy and "believers" in god!
This is the best post I have read on here. And sums exactly how I feel. Conspiracy theories are born out of peoples genuine concerns and they are right that the few control the many that governments lie etc The theorists say they are open minded but once a juicy theory arrives they become gulable and close minded. The poster is 100% correct the publishers of these theories profit from their lies. Governments around the world do terrible things to their own and other people but I doubt the reason is ALIEN MIND CONTROL OR OWL WORSHIP!
DONT BUY THE SUN
DONT BUY THE SUN
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Totally, 100% agree!
My housemate is a big David Icke buff, he's got most of his docs etc and as I do have an interest in conspiracies, I've watched a few of them.
The thing is, I don't believe the majority of Icke's ideas and my housemate's response is pretty much this: He says that coz the ideas are far-fetched, by everyday standards, people are afraid to speak out about them fof fear of being branded a 'lunatic' or similar. His feeling being that 99% of the population are sheep who are scared to be seen as anything other than 'normal'.
However, my counter-argument is always this: Conspiracy theorists, or at least Icke worshippers, adopt the exact same tactic to get their own point across.
"If you don't believe, you're simply a sheep and too close-minded to 'get it'"
Which, to me, is no different than the government calling all believers lunatics.
A generic, aimless person or 'sheep' would be scared into disbelieving these ideas by the fear of being labelled a 'lunatic'.
An open-minded person with an interest in conspiracy theories is scared into accepting them as truth by the fear of being labelled 'close-minded' or a sheep.
Same tactic, different camps.
RED_SKY
My housemate is a big David Icke buff, he's got most of his docs etc and as I do have an interest in conspiracies, I've watched a few of them.
The thing is, I don't believe the majority of Icke's ideas and my housemate's response is pretty much this: He says that coz the ideas are far-fetched, by everyday standards, people are afraid to speak out about them fof fear of being branded a 'lunatic' or similar. His feeling being that 99% of the population are sheep who are scared to be seen as anything other than 'normal'.
However, my counter-argument is always this: Conspiracy theorists, or at least Icke worshippers, adopt the exact same tactic to get their own point across.
"If you don't believe, you're simply a sheep and too close-minded to 'get it'"
Which, to me, is no different than the government calling all believers lunatics.
A generic, aimless person or 'sheep' would be scared into disbelieving these ideas by the fear of being labelled a 'lunatic'.
An open-minded person with an interest in conspiracy theories is scared into accepting them as truth by the fear of being labelled 'close-minded' or a sheep.
Same tactic, different camps.
RED_SKY
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I completely see where you're coming from/the point you're making.
One thing I would like to say is that I think it is closed-minded to have evidence of something put in front of you, and to say it is wrong/ impossible. I feel that is closed-minded. I think when there is what I would describe as a wilful refusal to consider or accept the possibility and then the possible evidence of alien/new species existence, that is closed-minded. For we are biological, and we would not exist if not for the sun. That is fact. There are millions of suns out there, so how can someone say it is impossible for life to exist that is ET? That is absurd. There is no explanation, no justification, just a clear desire to refuse to consider the option. And THAT is so closed-minded.
Some people make the link that if you are religious, then you don't believe in this kind of thing. Why not? Why can't you be both? Because religion teaches you that a God or Creator created all life. Hindu religion teaches that all life was created by the Sun (who also shines on EVERYONE). Again, unless religions cause you to deny that space exists, that other planets exists, and that other stars/suns exist, even those who are majorly religious are still simply in denial. For me, that is closed-minded.
As far as the star child goes - yes, there could be an element of paying people to say the right thing and produce the right results... but that would run far deeper, take far longer, and cost far more than to simply do the research to reveal the truth. All the scientists who have worked on the Star Child have put their careers on the line. They also have no reason to lie. If they really had a reason to lie, it would be for credibility, and they would deny the results. ALSO, they govt, according to conspiracy theories, have done their utmost to deny the existence of alien life. Why? Watch Moon Rising and tell me we haven't all been done over. The Star Child stuff hasn't been covered up because 1) so far, apart from finding that it is half inhuman, they have not found anything specific to cover up. 2) The skull is privately owned. They have no right to confiscate it.
That really is an extraordinary skull. To write it off, after reading what there is to read about it, is, IMO, closed-minded. When there is clear-cut proof, and you cannot fake DNA results. AT any rate, there are enough privately-owned Genetics companies who have access to all that evidence in the same way I have who could easily do their own research and go public with the results saying they're fake if they were, yet nobody has. Why not? Because they have no reason to, that's why. The evidence is there for all to see - half human, half something else. Whatever it is, the DNA for that thing has never before been found on this planet. Is it alien? Who knows? Is it a product of alien genetic engineering? Who knows. Is it a humanoid thing born of a human plus a species now extinct, but one that isn't 'alien' at all? Who knows. Is it half plastic?? But nobody can look at all that stuff and say, when the evidence is right there for the world to see, and say 'that is 100% human'.
To do so would again be so unbelievably closed-minded. If someone comes out and eventually DOES prove it to be human, I would then be closed-minded to say 'no it isn't, it can't be'.
In other news, I really do not believe all this crap about the Antichrist coming. While I am all for having a faith, I do not believe in God or a Creator. I believe we are on this planet through entirely biological processes. 100%. Nobody will ever sway me on that. I believe the Bible was written as a reference to thousands of events from this planets history that has been documented over thousands of years by all races, and they have been dressed up as acts of God. In example, I am more likely to believe that Sodom and Gomorrah were bombed or a meteorite hit them both than to believe God ordered a fiery hell to rain down on the cities. Nothing in religion has any proof for me, only what has been past through our histories, and, well, if you watch The Arrivals and believe any of the subliminal messaging etc, you'll know that all religions and histories have a chance of existing within the parameters of hidden (or not) agendas.
I do not believe in 2012 some massive bloody antichrist is going to rise up from the sea with seven heads, the body of a tiger, and enslave us all in a New World Order. That is effing stupid. Does that make me closed-minded or realistic? If there is no evidence of God, only evidence of his worship, and the same with Christ, and even less about the Antichrist,why would I believe this mythical creature is on it's way?
I think there is an ability to go backwards and forwards over this 'what is closed-minded', but I think the main thing is to do research and draw your own conclusions, rather than to refuse to consider possibilities in the first place.
Raz
One thing I would like to say is that I think it is closed-minded to have evidence of something put in front of you, and to say it is wrong/ impossible. I feel that is closed-minded. I think when there is what I would describe as a wilful refusal to consider or accept the possibility and then the possible evidence of alien/new species existence, that is closed-minded. For we are biological, and we would not exist if not for the sun. That is fact. There are millions of suns out there, so how can someone say it is impossible for life to exist that is ET? That is absurd. There is no explanation, no justification, just a clear desire to refuse to consider the option. And THAT is so closed-minded.
Some people make the link that if you are religious, then you don't believe in this kind of thing. Why not? Why can't you be both? Because religion teaches you that a God or Creator created all life. Hindu religion teaches that all life was created by the Sun (who also shines on EVERYONE). Again, unless religions cause you to deny that space exists, that other planets exists, and that other stars/suns exist, even those who are majorly religious are still simply in denial. For me, that is closed-minded.
As far as the star child goes - yes, there could be an element of paying people to say the right thing and produce the right results... but that would run far deeper, take far longer, and cost far more than to simply do the research to reveal the truth. All the scientists who have worked on the Star Child have put their careers on the line. They also have no reason to lie. If they really had a reason to lie, it would be for credibility, and they would deny the results. ALSO, they govt, according to conspiracy theories, have done their utmost to deny the existence of alien life. Why? Watch Moon Rising and tell me we haven't all been done over. The Star Child stuff hasn't been covered up because 1) so far, apart from finding that it is half inhuman, they have not found anything specific to cover up. 2) The skull is privately owned. They have no right to confiscate it.
That really is an extraordinary skull. To write it off, after reading what there is to read about it, is, IMO, closed-minded. When there is clear-cut proof, and you cannot fake DNA results. AT any rate, there are enough privately-owned Genetics companies who have access to all that evidence in the same way I have who could easily do their own research and go public with the results saying they're fake if they were, yet nobody has. Why not? Because they have no reason to, that's why. The evidence is there for all to see - half human, half something else. Whatever it is, the DNA for that thing has never before been found on this planet. Is it alien? Who knows? Is it a product of alien genetic engineering? Who knows. Is it a humanoid thing born of a human plus a species now extinct, but one that isn't 'alien' at all? Who knows. Is it half plastic?? But nobody can look at all that stuff and say, when the evidence is right there for the world to see, and say 'that is 100% human'.
To do so would again be so unbelievably closed-minded. If someone comes out and eventually DOES prove it to be human, I would then be closed-minded to say 'no it isn't, it can't be'.
In other news, I really do not believe all this crap about the Antichrist coming. While I am all for having a faith, I do not believe in God or a Creator. I believe we are on this planet through entirely biological processes. 100%. Nobody will ever sway me on that. I believe the Bible was written as a reference to thousands of events from this planets history that has been documented over thousands of years by all races, and they have been dressed up as acts of God. In example, I am more likely to believe that Sodom and Gomorrah were bombed or a meteorite hit them both than to believe God ordered a fiery hell to rain down on the cities. Nothing in religion has any proof for me, only what has been past through our histories, and, well, if you watch The Arrivals and believe any of the subliminal messaging etc, you'll know that all religions and histories have a chance of existing within the parameters of hidden (or not) agendas.
I do not believe in 2012 some massive bloody antichrist is going to rise up from the sea with seven heads, the body of a tiger, and enslave us all in a New World Order. That is effing stupid. Does that make me closed-minded or realistic? If there is no evidence of God, only evidence of his worship, and the same with Christ, and even less about the Antichrist,why would I believe this mythical creature is on it's way?
I think there is an ability to go backwards and forwards over this 'what is closed-minded', but I think the main thing is to do research and draw your own conclusions, rather than to refuse to consider possibilities in the first place.
Raz
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Just like to clear one thing up, I am in no way saying thet tha starchild skull is or is not fake, I was purely using it as an example of where the owner/proprietor is likely to make money so would do his/her best to make their case point the direction of most gain. if that appeared otherwise in my original post sorry.
I do have to disagree with you though Raz I've watched the moon rising film and thought it was hogwash, as someone with a good knowledge of photography half of the alterations he makes are pure fantasy and could be used to show anything, other points are also rubbish (like tha saucer standing on end, or the missing crosses from the hassleblad cameras) and have been debunked by multiple people (a quick google search will show you that). If there truely were a space station or some such on the surface of the moon, someone would have seen it from earth!
There are many unexplained things in this world, and I enjoy hearing reading about them, and governments do cover stuff up to hide the truth from people, however how much they do these things only time will tell.
Just as a guide, a few of the bigger conspiracy theories and my opinion:
911 - Not sure, too much brushed over for them all to be wrong, but then again, what happened in some aspects is clear, 2 planes hit 2 towers!
Moon rising - bunkem (see above)
Starchild - not sure, seems odd, but time will tell
NWO/Illuminate - I honestly don't think these guys are real or as powerful as made to believe. People like to have an evil guy/group to blame for things.
Hitler not dead (or died much later) - people want to believe this but face it the guy killed himself rather than face the consiquences (likewise, elvis - dead, MJ - dead, Tupac - dead)
aliens built pyramids - utter rubbish, it has been shown over and over how these were built, and why, no cover up there or in any other ancient structure (in my opinion, and I include nascar lines).
Lizard people (aka david Ike) - crap keeper, equally crap at making stuff up :)
Ash
I do have to disagree with you though Raz I've watched the moon rising film and thought it was hogwash, as someone with a good knowledge of photography half of the alterations he makes are pure fantasy and could be used to show anything, other points are also rubbish (like tha saucer standing on end, or the missing crosses from the hassleblad cameras) and have been debunked by multiple people (a quick google search will show you that). If there truely were a space station or some such on the surface of the moon, someone would have seen it from earth!
There are many unexplained things in this world, and I enjoy hearing reading about them, and governments do cover stuff up to hide the truth from people, however how much they do these things only time will tell.
Just as a guide, a few of the bigger conspiracy theories and my opinion:
911 - Not sure, too much brushed over for them all to be wrong, but then again, what happened in some aspects is clear, 2 planes hit 2 towers!
Moon rising - bunkem (see above)
Starchild - not sure, seems odd, but time will tell
NWO/Illuminate - I honestly don't think these guys are real or as powerful as made to believe. People like to have an evil guy/group to blame for things.
Hitler not dead (or died much later) - people want to believe this but face it the guy killed himself rather than face the consiquences (likewise, elvis - dead, MJ - dead, Tupac - dead)
aliens built pyramids - utter rubbish, it has been shown over and over how these were built, and why, no cover up there or in any other ancient structure (in my opinion, and I include nascar lines).
Lizard people (aka david Ike) - crap keeper, equally crap at making stuff up :)
Ash
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Hi Ash,
In fairness, as far as the Moon Rising stuff goes, I really enjoyed it but do not necessarily believe it. I think there are some seriously interesting links - e.g. the vector symbol prevalent in every single space organisation's logo... that is odd. I find it interesting that in the foto of the spaceman there is a vector when zoomed in on his face mask - yet there is no reflection of anything taking his picture. Wtf?
I am yet to decide whether I found that film convincing or not, but I DO believe they staged a moon landing, and deliberately mis-represented what the moon looks like, and I believe the is every chance that images have been hidden/altered by the govt. What that in turn means is anyone's guess.
One thing I will say though is I do not believe the image of Aristarchos Crater as found in books and on wiki is a real image.
Other than that, I am still not massively convinced by Moon Rising but I am not writing it off as false yet.
Raz
In fairness, as far as the Moon Rising stuff goes, I really enjoyed it but do not necessarily believe it. I think there are some seriously interesting links - e.g. the vector symbol prevalent in every single space organisation's logo... that is odd. I find it interesting that in the foto of the spaceman there is a vector when zoomed in on his face mask - yet there is no reflection of anything taking his picture. Wtf?
I am yet to decide whether I found that film convincing or not, but I DO believe they staged a moon landing, and deliberately mis-represented what the moon looks like, and I believe the is every chance that images have been hidden/altered by the govt. What that in turn means is anyone's guess.
One thing I will say though is I do not believe the image of Aristarchos Crater as found in books and on wiki is a real image.
Other than that, I am still not massively convinced by Moon Rising but I am not writing it off as false yet.
Raz
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What Rubbish?
Conspiracies theories are not a belief system.
The belief in a higher power is a belief system
Conspiracies are acts or events that the Illuminati who control the governments of this world want to suppress. The truth is seldom told in this world the general public who the illuminati believe are complete idiots and to be used in any way seen fit for the enrichment of the illuminati, they see no reason to inform us of any event rather they like to keep us clouded and drugged so that we are easier to manage
The sort of thinking above is just what the illuminatii wants - sheeple - however I do not blame any of you as you have been dumbed down through posions in your food, water and environment
Did you know you are sprayed every day with chemicals to keep you locked in a apathetic state
You are controlled by the media, the illuminati own the media and rarely are we told the truth on any issue
Do you really think the BBC keeps you informed?
Conspiracies theories are not a belief system.
The belief in a higher power is a belief system
Conspiracies are acts or events that the Illuminati who control the governments of this world want to suppress. The truth is seldom told in this world the general public who the illuminati believe are complete idiots and to be used in any way seen fit for the enrichment of the illuminati, they see no reason to inform us of any event rather they like to keep us clouded and drugged so that we are easier to manage
The sort of thinking above is just what the illuminatii wants - sheeple - however I do not blame any of you as you have been dumbed down through posions in your food, water and environment
Did you know you are sprayed every day with chemicals to keep you locked in a apathetic state
You are controlled by the media, the illuminati own the media and rarely are we told the truth on any issue
Do you really think the BBC keeps you informed?
Agree · 2 · Disagree · 0