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Geeky nerd, no more no less!!

Deano it would possibly evolve into something, who knows what. Who says that humans are the pinacle of life anyway.

i notice you skipped past me on the goldilocks zone bit.

I can suggest an entertaining website that explores this sort of thing:

rise-and-fall-of-alien-civilizations-in-our-own-galaxy.com

On there they work out that in our galaxy alone there are potentially 100's of BILLIONS star systems capable of supporting life and thats our galaxy alone. never mind the 100's of them seen in the very long range pics from Hubble....

Mort

...and at last we have an adult, coherent and well-delivered, albeit condescending, response from Ed.

Okay I get it. I still dont believe that our existence is the result of coincidence and chance but I definately feel what you're saying is useful.

Mort of course organisms evolve but answer me this:

If I leave a centimetre of bacteria on my table and we could fast forward a few hundred million years would it evolve or have the capacity to evolve into a human being? This is what the theory of evolution is suggesting and I reject this totally.

Deano {Ed001's Note - I never said it was, I was just explaining why it can't just be dismissed out of hand! Like I said, both theories are possible, neither can be proved or disproved, which is why I will just sit on the fence until one seems more likely. Certainly evolution has a large number of holes in it, as it stands, again though, it is impossible to prove or disprove. So it stays as a possible theory to be considered and discussed but not yet dismissed.}

Prehaps something does happen when we die... but why would this mean it has to be something to do with religion

jag_reddog

I believe in god but not religion
LP

Franky you do know who Nixon's sponsor was in the 1940's when he first went into politocs and who handpicked him for VP?


Our old friend Prescott Bush afther of George Sr. Nixon had long been on the Bush payroll.

I wouldn't say evil, or even thick. He was quite calculating himself. He was a very paranoid individual though, with good reason given he knew every dirty secret from US foreign policy since the end of the war. Don't forget his role in Cuba, mafia connections, and also JFK. He almost certainly knew what went on there and who. The wiretapping was to find out what Ellsberg knew and to get the dirt to destroy him. These things always tend to escalate when you think your surrounded by enemies.

I once saw a study by some psycological profilers on the kind of personality best suited to the presidency and the comparions against various presidents, the 2 highest scorers were Nixon and Clinton!

Mort

Mate everyone is going to read our posts...Im embarrassed for you.

Of course I understand coincidences can happen but you cant just go into a courtroom for example and say "oh its just a coincidence that my DNA was found on the scene" You have to provide sufficient enough evidence and information to support what you are saying.

You have in no way shape or form volunterred or offered anything to this discussion other than "its a coincidence, coincidences happen" You sound juvenile.

You dont seem to understand what I am saying and this is demonstrated in you referring to me as a religious type when I have clearly stated I am not so do not tell me I do not understand when it is abundantly obvious to anyone that will read this discussion that you have a problem processing basic information.

"its just a coincidence"....thats your argument in a nutshell and you expect me to take you seriously?

Im embarrassed that i've entertained this conversation for this long.

You are beyond hope.

Deano. {Ed001's Note - I will explain this slowly for the hard of thinking, as you clearly need some help understanding what has been said. There are an infinite number of worlds. That creates an infinite number of chances of an infinite number of worlds being capable of bearing life. Are you following so far? That's even if we suppose that life needs the conditions we do to support it, which clearly isn't true as we have many forms of life on this planet that have no need of the same conditions humans require. Anyway, back to the idiots guide to chance, we now have an infinite chance of infinite worlds being capable of bearing life. Which creates an infinite number of chances that life will happen by pure chance. Also an infinite number of chances that intelligent life will appear. So, anyone with an IQ that is capable of intelligent thought, will have to understand that it is very possible that it was pure chance. Also, by the same token, there is no way of ruling out the possibility that we are here due to intelligent design. Now do you understand? Or would you like to post up more lies and untruths about what other people have said because it has all gone over your head and you prefer to throw your toys out of your pram rather than trying to educate your mind and understand what they have in fact said? I am glad you are embarrassed, I would be embarrassed if I was you too.}

Melbourne its not just Christians though its Jewish and Muslim as well. And probably every other religion in the world, that have these concepts of a "good" afterlife and a "bad" afterlife. Just look at the Norse Valhalla and the Greek Hades, so its not just montheistic religions either.

Supasub, agreed thats more my own thinking as well.

Deano, reagrds the coincidence of alignment, its known fact that there is a habitable zone of a certain distance away from a star that if a planet is in that zone then there is a good chance life can occur. Bear in mind the trillions of stars i existance and then all the number that have planets then there is a good chance of having planets in those zones. I did see some exact figures somewhere which i'll put up later if thats ok ed?

Moving onto evolution, life has existed for hundreds of millions of years, so how can something not evolve? The fossil record is full of deadends of creatures that did not work out.

This is a serious point but one of the ebst books i read on this subject was Terry Pratchett's The Science of Discworld. Seriously have a read it could answer your questions.

Mort

Messi took growth hormones

Which points have been countered?

All you've said is that there are numerous possibilities amongst numerous universes and that the alignment of our planet could be coincidental.

I fail to see how these two comments have countered anything I have said.

You should take a look in the mirror because that post you have just written is exactly my feelings towards you...closed minded and the inability to accept alternative modes of thought.

Funny how you are trying to project your own inadequacy onto me.

I have not been abusive in the slightest. I find it interesting how you Eds seem to always use that line when you are on the backfoot.

All I am trying to do is open your mind to the possibility that evolution in the conventional sense and the big bang is not correct just because society says it is.

Why cant two people ever exchange ideas without it turning into a slanging match?

You have your ideas of how the world works and I have mine, there is no way to determine who is right or who is wrong.

I just want you to be wary that your comments could be seen as derogatory to those that hold certain religious beliefs. Its not fair to just dismiss people as "religious fanatics" just the same way as it not fair for me to dismiss the idea of the big bang.

Deano {Ed001's Note - are you really being serious? You really have completely missed the point. As for my own inadequacy, I am not the one who keeps talking about it, clearly it is not me who has those issues. I am not sure where you get the idea I am on the backfoot, but you keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better about things. You still have not answered how it is impossible for a coincidence to happen when there are infinite worlds, you don't even seem to understand the point I made, sadly.}

I AM NOT RELIGIOUS.

Why do you keep referring to me as a "religious type". I quite clearly pointed out that religion is a total nonsense in my previous post so what are you going on about?

Mate this is why I cant have a constructive debate with people like you. You dont listen, absorb and digest you just talk rubbish.

Im clearly way beyond anything you can handle so i'll leave you be mate.

You havent answered any of my questions or challenged any of the comments in my posts so this is just a waste of my time.

Deano {Ed001's Note - actually I have, you are the one not able to absorb what is being said. I have answered your questions, whereupon you have resorted to shouting me down as you are unable to counter my points. Your problem is that you have a closed mind and are unable to accept any other point of view, so constructive discussion is impossible as you do not have the capacity to discuss things or see other viewpoints. Instead you will jump onto the defensive, become abusive and make up complete and utter lies about what has happened. If you read back, you would see that the only person talking rubbish is you. Clearly you are the one who is unable to handle it, but then I would accept no better of someone unable to realise that their every point has been countered and they are just making themselves look completely ridiculous.}

I prob mentioned this a few times , i come from a catholic family went to catholic school,made communion/confession blah blah and wanted my kids to go to a catholic schools, i prob done like most of us pray for help in bad times, its just inbred in us to naturally think like that,now i don't think there is any type of god,something very intelligent created us that we cant comprehend and when we die we evolve a bit like Caterpillar evolving in to a butterfly , that's my take on it .
frankyscouse

You seem to have conveniently skipped the part of my post relating to the human body and mind...so are you saying that it is possible that the way our body functions with all the millions of cells that need to be in sync for us to function is just pure coincidence? Thats absurd.

Granted it could be a coincidence that our planet is aligned perfectly with the sun and the moon but to then say that the way our bodies are composed is coincidence aswel thats 2 coincidences mate. Its beyond ridiuculus if you are suggesting these two things are coincidence alone.

So by you guys theory I could leave a centimetre of bacteria on my kitchen table and if we could fast forward a hundred million years that bacteria would have evolved into a fully functioning human being? The idea of evolution is farcical.

You've been brainwashed and you dont even know it. Im fed up of people looking their noses down religious people. The only reason you support the big bang theory is because that is what you have been taught all your life, it is not because you have sat down and investigated for yourself because if you had you would know that the big bang is complete fiction.

The powers that be do not want us to know that we have infinite power, they want to chain us to this 3d world...it bugs me when clearly intelligent people like you Ed are so misguided.

Even if I had unwavering proof that the big bang was nonsense you wouldnt accept it, just like if you tell a christian that Jesus didnt exist no christian would accept it. You guys go on like you are so different from people that follow religion when in fact you are all the same; brainwashed beyond hope.

Deano {Ed001's Note - er no, you are the misguided one, I never said I supported the big bang theory, I do wish you religious types would stop assuming, because you haven't a clue. You are the brainwashed one, I merely said it was possible, as there are infinite worlds, so it follows, there are infinite chances of that happening. Your whole post is predicated on some nonsense ideal of there being a very limited number of worlds, meaning the chances of any coincidences being extreme. But there are numberless worlds, meaning numberless chances, so the chance of these coincidences is uncountably high. You have conveniently skipped the use of common sense and replaced it with blind faith.}

We're just a very advanced version of the sims, its all a computer simulation...
clt

There is a distinct difference between following an organised religion and believing in or knowing there is a higher power at work. You guys seem to think these 2 things overlap. I know there is a higher force but I am not religious is the slightest.

Some people name this higher power God, some people call it other things but essentially there is a higher intelligence that has created us...this cannot be denied.

The big bang theorey is the single most ridiculus notion I have ever come across. So from this explosion and evolution the sun and the moon just happen to be exactly the right distance from earth so that the planet is habitable, humans just happen to have all the necessary reproductive organs so that we can multiply and the earth jus happens to have all these natural resources i.e water, oil, fruit and vegetables; all the things we need to survive...I could go on for days but my point is that I find it so totally unbelievable that anybody could deny that we have been created and put here on earth.

There are too many "coincidences" and the only logical explanation is that there is intelligent design at work.

Just look at the human body and our mind and our brains. The millions of electrical signals, blood cells and hundreds of other intricate parts of our bodies that need to be in tandem for us to survive and you think this just happened due to some kind of big bang? Its pure fiction and doesnt make any sense...in life when something doesnt make sense then it usually isnt right.

Its quite funny how all you guys are saying that religious people are brainwashed when in fact it is you who has been brainwashed by the education system into believing such nonsense as the big bang theorey. Its quite ironic.

Yes organised religion is man-made and all these stories of heaven and hell are a figment of peoples imagination but let me tell you something, there is no denying that there is a higher power at work.

Whether you decide to call it God is your business but you cannot explain things like dreams and our consciousness on the big bang theory, its insane.

Why dont all you guys that have strong views against religion or god or spirituality actually spend a few hours doing some intelligent reading and you will find that most of what you have been taught about science and religion at school is more or less redundant.

Deano {Ed001's Note - seriously, your notion that it couldn't happen by chance is ridiculous. There are an infinite number of stars, planets and moons, of course there will be some who just happen to be the right distance to make it habitable. I seriously worry for you if you can't see. By the same token, it is possible that it is the work of intelligent design or even a mix of the two. But it is absolute nonsense to suggest it couldn't possibly be coincidence.}

I believe a certain Lionel Messi was on growth hormone as youngster at Barca which i'm pretty sure is a banned substance in sport.

I think after we die we gt buried or cremated. None of this heaven/hell malarky. Do religious believing people generally believe in the spiritual world more than atheists!

Ok , kind of along a theme , it must have been done on here before but whats everybodys thoughts on life after death?? What happens when we die??
Hunter.

If the Hindu's can believe in Vishnu (just an example, not having a dig at Elephants) I think you are in the clear there Supasub!

Melbourne CFC

Can i believe in a greater power than a human being (cant tell you what it is or what i would call it but a bit like the "force" in star wars obviously without moving objects!) without being religious?

Supasub