20 Jul 2016 14:33:52
Ed001, I saw your post further down arguing to someone about how Muslims aren't the problem etc, and whilst I tend to agree, I also feel that it's not the case 100%.
In countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia and Sudan, it's punishable by death to lose your faith and to be gay, and women have very little rights.
I went to Bradford Uni last year, and have a few friends that are Muslim, and even some of them are confused about how their religion should be taught.
They didn't believe the laws that Iran and Saudi teach. Say it's barbaric and not good for their image.
So my question is, do you think the countries that i've mentioned above are to blame for the views people have on Islam and do you believe this is the reason they're not seen by a lot as a religion of peace?
{Ed001's Note - yes, very much so. Like all religion it comes down to personal interpretation. Sadly so much of Islam is still interpreted by people who haven't realised it is 2016 but think it is in the middle of the Crusades.}
20 Jul 2016 17:49:45
What do you think the likelihood of these interpretations finding its way into British society and been accepted or even legal.
{Ed001's Note - it makes little difference as we have the lawful system that we actually operate under. That does not allow for this.}
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21 Jul 2016 10:33:52
This is very much my wheelhouse so I thought I'd share my two cents. There is a wide misunderstanding between Islamic culture and National Culture. Islamic Culture doesn't really exist, if you travel through the Muslim world you'll find vastly different societies, the only thing that really links them is the 5 Pillars of Islam which don't go a long way to dictating how you should live your life.
What you do have is some very socially conservative countries where Islam is the state religion such as the one's you mention like Saudi Arabia (although Iran is far less socially conservative than you may think) . In these countries Islam is the excuse for how they treat people as opposed to the reason for it. It is true that the Koran has some passages that seem to promote anti-women or anti-gay teachings but this is largely an issue of interpretation as opposed to what the Koran thematically teaches. As a comparison if a Christian wanted to subjugate women there are plenty of passages in the Bible he could find to legitimise his views.
There are many reasons why Islam has a negative reputation amongst certain people. Part of it is because there's a lot of bad stuff happening in Muslim countries right now that dominates the headlines, it's partly because we currently live in an environment that promotes extreme views, it's partly because the media makes more money talking about 'Muslim issues' than it does 'issues', it's partly because some people find it easier to label an entire religion as one thing rather than consider the hugely complex organism that is made of of 1.6 Billion people world wide.
As for whether Conservative Islamic practices such as Sharia Law could ever become significant in British Society I just don't see it it being a threat. For that to happen would take constitutional change in this country which could only be forced through by an Islam dominated society (not going to happen, Atheism will dominate Britain from this point forward) and even if it did we'd have to be a fundamentalist Islamic society (British Muslims, as a group, are being liberalised not radicalised) . The threat of Islam 'taking over' is a fairy tale designed to scare people, nothing more.
{Ed001's Note - wow, well said muscat. Excellent post.}
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21 Jul 2016 11:26:22
Cheers Ed1, it's a subject close to my heart.
{Ed001's Note - if you don't mind saying, why is that mate?}
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21 Jul 2016 13:21:36
A number of reasons, I've spent a lot of time in the Middle East, my parents and brother have lived in Oman for almost 30 years. I never settled there but I think it's a wonderful place with some of the friendliest people I've had the pleasure to know, I go back as often as I can.
I've also spent time in Iraq and Afghan, I've visited various other Muslim countries and what I see is not reflective of religious dogma but of that particular society and the political/ economic problems it faces. Then I come home and I see the media report things from a very simplistic viewpoint and I see that viewpoint hoovered up by certain people, I personally find it very frustrating.
Trying to counter what I feel is ignorance is important to me. Not only does it make me feel better but I truly believe that hate and ignorance, from both sides, is what drives conflict. I know there is no reason why Muslims and Westerners can't peacefully live together and I want to live in a world where that is the case.
{Ed001's Note - it is the same thing with Arabs. People lump them together as all the same, when they are not. Everyone thinks they are all oil sheikhs with billions in the bank. No one even cares about what is happening in Yemen and how their people are suffering.}
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21 Jul 2016 14:01:08
Awesome post muscat. Just to add, as I head off on a 6 month journey through India in about a month and intend to spend a chunk of time with Muslims in Hyderabad, to better understand what it really means to be Muslim, from Muslims (rather than the bs we get told by the media) . Something I think is vital in understanding these beautiful people is the practise on Ramadan or Ramzan.
On a whole, this is not considered a religious time by most Muslims. They don't spend the month praising Allah etc as most probably believe. This is a month, where they as a collective decide to remind themselves of the suffering that is experienced in the world. They go without food, from sun up to sun down, to reconnect to the notion that many in the world don't have the choice of doing the same. They remind themselves that people are hungry everywhere, and they stand with them. It is far more about removing the ego and reminding themselves of how lucky they are, but also to show the poor that they are no different. At its core it is a reminder that all the exterior bs is meaningless if you forget that we, as humans, are all the same. The older Muslims aren't forced into partaking in Ramadan, due to the effects it can have on an ageing body, however, if they can't partake in the fasting aspect they have to give a predetermined amount of money to the poor in order to show there support.
I fully appreciate that being a Muslim isn't a race, so taking issues with them doesn't make you a racist. I also understand some are fearful of losing the identity they hold so dear, as Brits, Americans or Aussies. I do however also think people like Southampton use it as a reason to further their racist ideals on the world, whether consciously or unconsciously. Whether you, as Brits want to accept the reality of the situation or not, you sent boatloads of convicts to Australia, as immigrants, and destroyed a thousand year old culture known as the aboriginals. Not to escape death in England but to further the Queens reach over this vast planet. And now we cry foul, when people escaping the very terrorists we in the west fear, people who experience attacks daily, not once a year, want to come, as immigrants and be granted the freedoms we enjoy so much because they are different to us.
We in the west have these views of Muslims yet rarely have I, or do I ever see people attempt to understand them. You may think the Turkish PM is evil but the reason the people took to the streets was to oppose a coup (staged or not) which wanted to take that country back to a state of Sharia Law. They don't want that. The people put themselves in harms way to stop that from happening. They believe in the freedoms that we all share and I just wish more people would take the time to understand that and understand that Muslims don't want to force you into believing what they do. They just want the same freedoms we have and all deserve. They are the frontline in the fight against terrorism. Not us and they deserve a chance at freedom. As you don't own your patch on land anymore than the aboriginals did. Feel free come over the pond and ask them whether they believe in terrorism and who are the culprits. You might just find it's your relatives.
Not directed at anyone and not meant to offend anyone, but like Muscat, an issue close to my heart.
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