18 Oct 2015 12:03:32 Kim, the point about political correctness was not aimed at you - I should have made that clear. But there is a lot of it that goes on when people broach subjects like this which makes them difficult to discuss.
Personally I believe the number of victims to be very important and never understood the argument that it isn't. Not because it makes it a better or worse act, but from the point of view of why were we told such half truths in the first place? What is the origin of those facts that later turn out to be false? These are important questions, the answers to which will help us to understand when and how we are being lied to again. I read once that the only source for the figure of 6 million was a nazi who had been tortured during the Nuremburg trials. He could have been forced to say it for all we know but regardless of that its a very flimsy source of info that was used to support what we thought was a fact about the figure of 6 million later to find out it was no fact.
When you then read about a Jewish prophesy dating back to the late 1800's stating that Israel would be created once 6 million Jews had been sacrificed - the figure itself seems to be very significant indeed.
Taking into account the Balfour declaration during ww1 and the treaty of Versailles between the wars - it would seem that a lot of the conditions for the wars were manipulated and controlled by people more powerful than any prime minister or president. Then as we all know - the state of Israel followed, as was prophesised many years earlier.
I don't think anybody is apologising for hitler, I'm sure he was a very ruthless man, which in turn made him the perfect puppet. The nazi's did many heinous crimes which nobody sane would support. But all I'm interested in is finding the true version of events, then finding out why that version differs from the original narrative - and who stood to benefit from that.
You talk about all these thousands of bits of evidence that support the official narrative yet many of those have been eroded away over the years, some of which I've mentioned in my original post. So I don't feel like I'm wrong to question these things, if others hadn't have done so we wouldn't know today things like the real uses of zyclone b, the revision of the numbers who died, the fact there was no gas chamber in dachau, that Jewish skin and flesh was not made into lampshades/soap. there's much more than that too believe me. So I think its important we question these things.
The term revisionism is sometimes labelled at people who have questioned the official narrative and its a term that has been used with negative connotations I. e. Making out those people to be trouble makers or even disrespecting the dead. What's interesting is that over the years the official narrative has had to be revised in the light of many questions asked by those searching for the truth. I don't see revisionism as a bad thing because after all we know the saying about 'the victors write the history books'.
I do agree with you about the focus being on Jewish prisoners and I think that only goes to highlight the agenda at play here. The Zionists had wanted Israel created for a long time and finally got their wish in the back drop of what happened in those camps, the narrative of the persecution of jews supported their actions.
I do not support or apologise or defend hitler and his party. But I want to know the full truth and I want to understand the purpose of the the lies as well as the truth.
I wouldn't be surprised if this article will be used to gauge public opinion (by looking at the comments for instance) before it's decided whether to run with it via other outlets or not.
18 Oct 2015 00:50:20 Yes interesting but not surprising in the least, just what most of us expected.
Didn't Alistair Campbell reveal that Rupert Murdoch had been phoning Blair directly, encouraging him to back the usa in Iraq in exchange for positive coverage by news international?
17 Oct 2015 22:37:00 Kim is it really black and white though? I think not
I'm personally very sceptical about the official narrative surrounding the goings on at the camps. The fact that the official narrative has had to be amended heavily over the years as certain 'facts' were proved not to be fact - says a lot. We were told 6 million Jews were systematically killed but where is the evidence of that? Turns out that figure has had to be decreased as people questioned the facts.
The Nuremburg trials have been shown to be a white wash in many ways, who were the people making judgements? Were the nazi's interrogated under torture? If so, I'm not sure how relevant that testimony is. We were told zyclone b was used to gas people but actually we now know it was used to clean the bed sheets and dorms of prisoners. Why would this be done if indeed the plan was to kill the prisoners all along? I'm of the opinion that these camps were set up for forced labour not as death camps, the nazi's needed that labour in their attempts to win the war so killing off all of their work force would make little sense.
There is evidence that many or most of the prisoners at the camps died from typhoid or starvation as the war came to an end but that version of events would not support the official narrative which led eventually to the creation of the state of Israel as a refuge for the persecuted Jews. I think it was Dachau camp where we were told of stories of mass gassings also? Only to find out later that there wasn't even a gas chamber there?
And then the propaganda stating that the skin of Jews was used to make lamp shades and their flesh made into bars of soap - only to be discovered later that those claims are baseless. When the establishment version of events is used as a political football (in creating Israel etc) only for us to find out that many elements of that narrative were either false or mis-interpreted - I have a big issue with that.
As you allude, I believe hitler and the nazi's were funded by Zionist Jews. If true, there is a much bigger picture here than one evil man doing as he pleases.
This topic is very close to my heart but whenever you even broach the subject with most people you get looks akin to those aimed at a serial killer. Its amazing how powerful a tool political correctness is to the elite. I also have a problem with that.
14 Oct 2015 07:42:28 Leahy I will admit that for me it was purely recreational, at the time, nothing more to it. But plenty of people do take these substances responsibly and to expand their consciousness, as Melbourne and growbun will tell you.
I'm assuming you have tried it seeing as you seem to think it doesn't work?
Exercise is great for releasing endorphins and I'm sure most people know that its good to keep fit and active. Both activities are in no way mutually exclusive though.
13 Oct 2015 22:27:10 Having had many of the best nights of my life on pills and mdma and having such a fondness for weed I always assumed I would enjoy mushrooms. But my first trip was a horror show (even though it started well) and I've tried it a few times since but always ended in a bad trip, almost like I unlocked the door to that negative feeling the first time round. It may not have helped that my first time was to take 2 large doses of strong foreign shrooms, either from Hawaii or Mexico, I forget which. Since then even the local species end up in a bad trip just not so extreme. The one interesting thing I noticed was after that experience I had unlocked the ability to trip when taking large amounts of mdma, really vivid changes in perception and colour but always positive - unlike my experiences on mushrooms. I always wondered why that was but never looked into it thoroughly, it was just like a switch had occurred in my brain.
I'm going away next year and will have the opportunity to try ayahuasca but I'm thinking its not a great idea given my previous experiences with natural hallucinogens. Is it of a similar effect?
I can however see how shrooms etc. can be of benefit in terms introspectively analysing ones self because I did see things in myself that I had never noticed before. Just a shame it usually ended badly!
13 Oct 2015 22:33:34 Beethoven and Mozart of course, lots of js Bach pieces too. I like more modern classical also - some of Vaughan Williams pieces are incredible and perfect for relaxing or reading.
I turned 30 less than a year ago and almost found that I liked classical music overnight. Just found myself flicking to classic fm in the car and leaving it on! I find I helps with de-stressing, concentration and just having a good long think about things (pondering).
13 Oct 2015 17:17:33 Think it was Melbourne who said that. Hallucagenics, reading, meditation who knows?
I've only recently discovered my fondness for classical music Kim, and have to say it helps me drift away into distant thoughts a lot more effectively than modern pop music etc. Something more primal about it. I also like to listen to the odd piece of chanting or tribal music if I feel the need to be at one with myself and to have a good think.
12 Oct 2015 22:05:45 Melbourne I totally agree, I think most of us see it that way tbh.
Lots of people die from alcoholism annually yet there is no call to make it illegal. Only the individual can control how they use substances and weed certainly is of benefit to many people and should be of benefit to far more - if only the medical benefits were shared amongst the mainstream.
I just think that whilst we point out the positives in forums like these its also important to point out the dangers, everything in moderation is the way forward. The problem for people like me is we got in a little too deep too soon, before educating ourselves on the pros and cons. I do blame the poor education we receive when it comes to illegal substances but more than that I fully understand that I have myself to blame and only I can decide to make the relevant changes.
12 Oct 2015 11:49:50 Thanks for this thread and well done Jase.
I've smoked daily for around 15 years and have loved the majority of my experiences. But although I'm quite liberal in terms of my views on decriminalization and the benefits etc I have to admit that its become more than a habit over the years. Like any substance it can be damaging if the user struggles to control it. The negatives for me are a lack of energy and desire to get out of the house as well as getting up groggy and of course the health issues linked with smoking in general.
I've wanted to cut down or quit for a while now. time for another shot I think using this thread as my inspiration.
09 Oct 2015 17:11:53 Its not like it was totally covered up (corbyn's view) because the daily mail covered it, its the fact nobody else went near it that makes me suspicious.
I believe bin Laden was dead long before his official death but they needed us to think he was still alive as justification for some of the action in the middle east. I love that we were told his body was immediately thrown into the sea 'out of respect for his faith' - you couldn't write it and it would be funny if it wasn't so bad.
Whether or not he worked directly for the CIA I think they clearly used him as a pawn in the whole thing, having firstly aided him and his friends for years.
The media is used to turn guys like Bin Laden, Putin, Gaddafi and Saddam into James bond style evil villains who want nothing more than to cause harm to humanity as a whole. Then the sheep in the west will happily give their blessing to whatever type of military action they are sold as the 'solution' to these bad guys.
I don't follow msm but a friend sent me this link to a daily fail article stating that corbyn believes 9/11 was manipulated. Like I said I don't follow msm but as far as I'm aware this story hasn't been covered by the other mainstream sources? Am I being paranoid or is this not a major news story which the media should have been all over?
What i'm thinking is that they got the story out there in one source only in order to gauge public reaction, realised that the comments weren't as negative as hoped so decided not to take wider as it would not have the desired effect.
Any thoughts? And if you've seen the story elsewhere please correct me.
08 Oct 2015 23:35:31 Ah growbun I almost forgot that we are 'in season'. I've not partaken for a few years now. Do you have a good spot near where you live?
08 Oct 2015 23:31:18 Couldn't agree more ctr and browgun. You can see the agenda's at play. Also, the encouraging of promiscuity can lead to the break up of family units and people can be more easily controlled when they're not part of a cohesive unit.
Its crazy to think that back in the day we looked up to great philosophers, adventurours, inventors etc. Now kids look up to the likes of Kim kardashian who's famous for a sex tape and having a monstrous behind!
08 Oct 2015 22:51:20 Pop music videos in the western world are saturated with sexual imagery also. Might be fun for us grown ups at times but when you consider that the videos are mostly watched by kids and young teenagers its pretty sick really, what does it teach our kids?
07 Oct 2015 17:54:20 9/11 was a fake terror attack used to justify military action in the middle east. Western governments are controlled by powerful international interests who stand to benefit from this military action (through oil, other resources, strategic geographic positioning causing never-ending wars etc). So it may be a bit simplistic to label the event as an 'inside job' however there would certainly have been groups or individuals within the US establishment who were involved or compliant, under the orders of their internationalist superiors.
Theres loads of smoking gun evidence which disproves the official narrative, too much to mention all in one place, but for instance: 1. Plane wings don't slice through structural steel 2. Jet fuel does not burn at a high enough heat to manipulate the structural steel to cause a collapse, let alone within the witnessed time frame 3. The collapse of the towers at free fall speed defies basic physics and can only be explained logically by some form of controlled demolition. And the collapse of tower 7 which wasn't even hit defies any practical logic 4. The fact that the supposed pilots were amateurs, had never been inside a cockpit of the model of jet used and could certainly not have pulled off the tricky manoeuvres (especially at the pentagon) at the stated speeds 5. The speeds given that the jets were travelling at in any case were beyond that which those models are designed to travel at near ground level, which would have meant danger of the planes being damaged well before impact let alone making it nigh on impossible for them to be flown accurately 6. The lack of debris first witnessed at the pentagon and total lack of any signs of a plane at the supposed crash site of flight 93 7. The witness accounts that what flew into the pentagon resembled a 'missile' or 'missile with no wings' 8. The fact that cctv footage from local businesses (which would surely give a clear view of a huge jet flying low then into the pentagon) was confiscated and has never been made public
I could go on all day, in fact I'm shocked at how many holes there are in the official version. Were they testing how easy it is to fool us?
The best documentary I have seen on the subject is called 'september 11 the new pearl harbour' and is available on youtube. I always recommend it to people who want to learn more about 9/11.
06 Oct 2015 17:43:58 Couldn't agree more, those rich lists with Bill Gates and Warren Buffet on top really are a hoot! Most likely those guys are puppets for the big boys.
06 Oct 2015 17:42:25 Kim, You would know a lot more than me about that kind of thing so I take your point and thanks for the info. Coming from more of a point of ignorance I have to rely on gut instinct a lot of the time, trying to read between the lines of what is said etc. Assange quote on 9/11 "I'm constantly annoyed that people are distracted by false conspiracies such as 9/11, when all around we provide evidence of real conspiracies, for war or mass financial fraud." I have real trouble putting trust in anyone who has researched 9/11 only to arrive at this conclusion, let alone someone of his background putting this message out. Some of his supposed views scream controlled opposition to me.
HoneyBadger · 18 Oct 2015 11:07